I Goggled studded tires and where they are permitted. Bizarre. Most states they are allowed through the winter months, but the states where they are banned might be a list of liberal run states.
I Goggled studded tires and where they are permitted. Bizarre. Most states they are allowed through the winter months, but the states where they are banned might be a list of liberal run states.
Originally Posted by whomever
Apparently, all the Subarus one sees in snowy-winter areas goes beyond the luxury car status Subaru gives their owners
(OK, yes, I have a Forester, and before that a WRX, and before that, another WRX. A nice few inch layer of snow, and no particular place one has to be, is a WRX owner's dream - - - well, except maybe for the one shown being whacked by the snow plow earlier in this thread. The Subie is very capable, at least in snow up to its body pan. The limiting factor is often the driver.)
1)They are noisy...not earplug noisy, but maybe gravel noisy?? We only notice for a few days when they go on or off in fall or spring. But when a car drives past, you know if it has studs or not.
2)You give up some traction on dry pavement relative to non-studs. I recall hearing numbers like 10%??? That depends on the exact two tires being compared, of course.
3)As far as speed, back in the day I recall hearing limits of 60 or so being suggested. A few minutes googling just now didn't find anything authoritative saying that. But they will certainly go that fast without problems, because we do it all the time. I drive like an old woman even in summer with summer tires - the Montana limit is 80 lots of places, and I almost never go that fast. But I'm sure not going to do that in winter, because the road being dry here doesn't mean there isn't ice around the corner, on the roads we drive. So, for us, they are good to as fast as I want to go in winter, which is 60-65.
Studs aren't magic. They don't give as much traction as chains. But for an example use case, we used to live in WY (in the days of 55 MPH limits!). WY has a phenomenon where the wind will move snow along the ground, even when it isn't snowing - it can be a bright sunny day. In daylight, you see a river of snow blowing across the road, looking somewhat like smoke, 50 yds wide and six inches deep. Tires smash that down into the road and you get really slick black ice. If you see the snow river ahead, you slow down. The problem is that the wind might have stopped, so there is no blowing snow to warn you, but the black ice us still there and invisible. So the last snowfall was a week ago, it's been sunny, and you're on a 250 mile drive on an apparently bare dry interstate. Chains aren't an option because you don't want to go 30 mph for 250 miles, even if they would last that long. Non-studs mean you spend the trip on constant alert waiting for the car to spin out. Studs mean you cruise down the highway relaxed, because the studs give enough traction you won't notice the ice as you drive gently down the interstate at 55. That just doesn't require a ton of traction, and the studs deliver enough.
Yes, in a 2017 Outback, 2023 Outback, and 2022 Ascent. It does a better job of managing the task than I do -- and I grew up driving RWD cars on bald tires in northern Iowa. More importantly it frees me up to concentrate on other tasks, like watching other drivers.
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My 4R has downhill assist but I've never used it. I just don't need to drive on ice and snow. I went out a few days ago after 3 inches of snow but the roads were bare and wet. People don't slow down where I live when it snows. After a storm I can drive into town, about 12 miles and see lots of vehicles in the ditch. Last year I saw two on their roofs. How do people do that?
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
My solutions to this in this order:
1) Talk with your neighbors, pool up, hire a professional snow removal/ice removal guy. Make sure you make it clear to that person it is imperative that they pre-treat the roads and clear them, multiple times, during snowfall. You'll pay a premium for this service, but you pay for convenience.
2) Studded winter tires on one of the vehicles.
Those would be my two used solutions. I personally would prefer number 1 - in that it costs more, but is of minimal inconvenience to you. It also means your neighbors and wife can more safely traverse that section of road.
Another alternative - You could find the neighbor with an ATV/UTV and offer to buy them a plow and salt spreader for these same services. Surprisingly enough - this is a common thing here on Long Island - we have a neighbor with an ATV (why I do not know, since there is almost no where to ride them here on LI) and winter is his favorite time of year. He puts on a plow blade and salt spreader and goes around plowing driveways, sidewalks, and some of the road (the county does well here plowing regularly).
ASSUMING the roadway in question us in fact a public street, there is no way in hell he should do this, especially without talking to his lawyer and insurance provider. There is existing caselaw where someone mowed state right of way adjacent to their property , blew grass clippings onto roadway, and a motorcyclist wrecked and successfully sued adjacent property owner.
In my state, DOT and City/County Public Works are protected by a sovereign immunity cap (goes up every year)on damages for their actions, you as the individual acting as a "good summaritan" cleaning the roadway are not, sky is the limit on damages.
This is not to say in rural areas of my state that farmers don't help county public works /DOT on some backroads by opening them up with 4WD tractors and blades but the probability of them getting sued is much much less.
Plowing in a residential area = high probability of damage to mailboxes , parked vehicles, and widows (car and house) when conditions are right and a plow operator is flinging slush, it doesn't even have to be injury accidents for the pain in PIA to be felt...
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Then we can flip the script. If YVK is unable to attend to a patient due to an inability to get to the hospital and that patient subsequently dies - then it would be DOT/City/County Public Works who should have to face the family's lawsuit.
Admittedly, I could go on a long tirade about this and similar issues. ~10 years of living in Chicago, Seattle, and now New York has taught me a few important lessons about relying on City/County/State Public Works and especially unionized ones. The long and short is don't, because you'll be disappointed every single time. The other thing I have learned is - it's easier to tell someone to fuck off than it is to get them to do their job(s).
(I admittedly have not won a lot of pro-union friends during my time)
I’d agree with this.
Modern studs are fine at highway speeds and not as noisy as say a mud tire on a 4x4. But they make a distinctive sound.
In deep snow, chains are obviously superior, but on packed snow and ice (which was the original premise of this thread) studs are better.
In a normal winter we drive on snow covered roads a lot due to minimal traffic, cold weather and erratic plowing. I would prefer studs, but not allowed in Wisconsin. So stud less winter tires it is, on 3 cars, 2 4wd and one rwd that doesn’t come out much.
"It is not Flip the script" see post 42 where I ask YVK if he is comfortable talking with FD/ Public Works and # 46 where I suggest leveraging the existing first responder relationship to get what he needs. I can only speak to my state with absolute certainty but the public works agency has a legal obligation to address known hazards across all of the public right of way. As long as they are adhering to policy in regards to how they address winter weather they would not have negligence in regards to the "dangerous condition" at this specific location, unfortunately for him the existing policy is not working, which is why if he cant get what he needs with the original engagement, I also suggested in #42 that engagement with elected officials and other "influential stakeholders" ( read whoever has the big stick politically- Representative, business owner, the hospital itself if it is an important enough employer in the area etc) could result in a policy change to get what he needs if the initial talk doesn't work...
Public Works agencies are often run by risk adverse engineers who respond well to situations where you can bring facts, point out potential negative outcomes (press, potential lawsuits etc), or involve political sway. Telling the poor schmuck who answers the phone to fuck off after getting frustrated that you can't convince them to do their do their damn job won't get you want you want. I know you (@RevolverRob) are politically savvy in an academic environment from previous posts, it is no different here -but it is a different set of rules and for 10 years you haven't been applying them to get what you want....
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