Fight Lights: Weapon Mounted vs. Handheld

[NH Shooter]

I posted an article on the EDCLB website that discusses the concept of handheld "fight lights" and their use vs. WMLs for civilian use.

There's already agreement here on P-F that a handheld is a must for EDC, and that a WML on the EDC pistol is a worthy addition. In the article I argue that instead of the WML, the civilian should consider a dedicated handheld fight light in lieu of the WML.

My thanks to all for clicking the link below and taking the time to read the article. I look forward to any comments you'd like to share - please feel free to post them below!

Fight Lights: Weapon Mounted vs. Handheld

[rob_s]

Some thoughts...

ypu say in order to illuminate something with a WML you have to point the pistol at it, and I don't think that's 100% accurate. Bouncing light off various surfaces has worked great for me both in checking bumps in the night and in chasiingflur-legged vermin around the yard at night.

I also think that it's entirely possible to have a light thats both Edc and “fight”. For years, and even currently, I tend to prefer edc lights that start at a lower brightness and then go high, but I find it totally workable to have a light that starts bright and does to low with a double-click to combine an edc and fight light. You want the default to be fight mode when you're under stress and the slower option to be the general illumination.

Either way, I think this is a case of personal preference, and for new gun owners or people new to carrying itsimoortant to at least think through the strategy and approach.

Forexamole, my wife is not a “gun person” and has had next to zero training. So I don't have a gun-mounted light on the nightstand gun. Why? Because I think the likelihood of us having a violent encounter is statistically insignificant and she lacks the training to bounce the light, and if she were to grab the gun and a light I think she's more likely to sweep a kid than kill a bad guy. So for me the greater risk is an accident not an intentional and therefore we keep the light off the gun.

When I lived alone? Light on gun. If she attends some classes in the future or got “serious” about guns and shooting? Light on gun.

[Tackleberry40sw]

The article is very well articulated. I have a very big bias. I believe in both and have utilized both on and off duty and both items are must have in my everyday on duty and off duty routines. There is the minimalist "get by" or "make do" with just having a hand held "Fight Light", I like to have that reassurance that I have that light mounted to the pistol because it reduces variables and keeps both hands on the pistol when pressed into service. By the same token, I like the finger rings on fight lights because I can flip the flashlight over the back of my hand when employing the pistol into service retaining control of the fight light while maintaining the maximum two handed grip on the pistol. To each their own and one has to do what makes sense, fits into one's EDC routine, and works with their everyday movements amongst other humans. There is no one size or one answer that fits all.

On a side note, I have a small story of my first off duty employment of a fight light to ID and make people reconsider their actions. My wife and daughter were outside one summer evening after dinner playing. My daughter was 3 maybe 4 at the time. She's going to be 9 in March. At one point I had drug addicted (meth) young adults living next door and a late 30's alcoholic across the street. Something transpired where words were said and a domestic dispute had begun that was quickly escalating and going to become a physical altercation. My wife came in the house in a hurry and something to the effect, "Come quick! There is going to be a fight!" As per usual, I am home and all geared up with my off duty EDC load out. I reached down into my left cargo pocket for my EDC/Fight Light at the time, an inexpensive Thorfire C8S (Amazon Chinesium 5 mode flashlight) set on High, and dashed out of the house and up the driveway. It was dusk and I was able to see what appeared to be three or four young people on my side of the street near the curb on my side of the street and one adult individual on the opposite side of the street. Heated words were being exchanged. I turned on my flashlight on high (900 lumens) and aimed it at the closest young aggressor running his suck. I illuminated him and said, "Don't move! Sheriff's Deputy!" The use of the light and me identifying myself stopped everyone in their tracks. I was able to defuse the situation with a powerful light source and my interpersonal communication skills.

A fight light has its place as a good tool in one's toolbox of EDC tricks. I stand by my use and employment of both a fight light and a WML for EDC. Thank you for reading.

[rob_s]

Something else that I think factors in os the competency matrix/spectrum

1) unconscious incompetence
2) conscious incompetence
3) conscious competence
4) subconscious competence


If you aren't at a 4 with basic manipulations, adding any sort of light can be a challenge. And the preponderance should be on the carrier to protect the public first, not themselves. So adding a WML when you barely know how to change a mag is probably a bad idea.

[NETim]

As a civvie, I don't believe the juice is worth the squeeze as far as toting a WML. I ALWAYS have a handheld light on my person. I use a light on an almost daily basis for very mundane household duties, like chasing down launched gun springs. WML translates to more weight and more bulk. It's far more comfortable (and versatile/useful) to carry a light in my pocket.

My dull, low key geezer lifestyle seldom finds me out in public places after dark. However, it's so easy and totally innocent in appearance to simply carry the hand held in hand should I ever find myself in an abnormal (for me) situation and potentially need to light up an unknown contact.

I am waiting for Marshal Haggard to chime in here.

[NH Shooter]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

[Noah]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

I did a drill shooting at night with my brother which got him to "see the light" on this.

You can't ID a non immediate threat with a WML. So we started with a handheld on the nefarious steel plate. On the beep, he could either drop the handheld, draw his pistol and use his WML, or just keep the handheld light in his hand and draw and shoot one handed. Contrary to his expectation, just keeping the light on and drawing and shooting one handed was faster and easier.

For public use (IE not home defense), 95% of the reason I carried a WML 2017-2021 was fear based. I was afraid of getting stuck in some imaginary scenario where I would be unprepared out in public by not having a WML. At the same time, I was finding carrying with a WML was a lot more uncomfortable when holding, chasing, and playing with my new baby.

The podcast that John Johnston and Chuck Haggard did finally got me to admit that
A) the scenario in which a WML would be useful in a public, non pitch black woods or interior building setting is extremely unlikely. Can't ID with it, most public places are fairly well lit, and you're reacting to an attacker, not hunting.
And B) I was also afraid to have to shoot one handed with a handheld light. That's a skill deficiency and lack of confidence.

So on those 2 points, my felt "need" to have a WML was based on coping with fears, not an assessment of reality.

If you can carry a WML in addition to a handheld with a change in comfort or concealment that you're OK with, go for it, but for most people it probably isn't worth it.

[Tackleberry40sw]

Great points, thanks for taking the time to post them!

To clarify, the context of the article is for a civilian (non-LEO) in a public setting. Inside one's home is a different set of circumstances (especially in a state with Castle Doctrine law), and a LEO (on duty or off) is going to have far more latitude in drawing their weapon without any "brandishing" repercussions.

A scenario that comes to mind is I already have my handheld light out for SA purposes in a public space - a practice I advocate. Suddenly, a threat emerges and I find myself in a defensive situation where the use of deadly force would be justified. As I draw my WML-equipped pistol, do I drop the handheld and transition to the WML, or do I keep the threat illuminated and continue to use the handheld with my well-practiced flashlight-pistol technique?

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

So as a civilian in a public space, if my SOP is to have the handheld deployed whenever it's needed, and if I'm going to retain the light and use it with the pistol if a threat emerges, does a WML mounted to the pistol become largely irrelevant? Would my training bandwidth be better spent on a tool that has broader application?

As always, just my 2-cents served up as food for thought. My thanks again to all for chiming in!

My $0.02:

I look at things from the standpoint of training and tools and the use of said tools. Whether being On Duty/Off Duty badge carrying member of the constabulary or a member of John Q. Public it is a question of what one is willing to have, train with, carry, and employ. I wear some sort of open button down shirt all year long to cover the bevy of items on my belt while being off duty. One's choice of attire, tools, and accessories will dictate and represent one's choices. Age, physical ability, dexterity, area of operation, time of day, personal choice based on "What if?" scenarios are all personal choices. Deploying a hand held light to identify subjects, threats, objects etc., are all part of one's OODA Loop. Once a threat is identified, one has split second decisions on whether to un-ass the area of operation if that option is available. If the choice is made to engage with the threat, me using a fusll size pistol with a weapon mounted light in an IWB holster would be to flip the hand held over the back of my support hand while drawing my pistol and getting off the "X", marrying my hand together around the pistol in a shooting stance punching the pistol out, engaging the WML, and giving verbal commands to the subject (creating witnesses). If I did not have a WML, I'd still get off the "X" with the hand held light off, drawing my pistol, and getting a light/pistol hold based on which of the several methods taught to me during my career. I'd bring the pistol and light to bear in my new position, reengage the hand held light, and give verbal commands to the subject. For me, I prefer the WML. My choice is not to encourage, influence, or push others in the direction of having a WML. I choose to use and have both lights to maximize my perceived benefits and use during a worst case scenario that I hope never comes to fruition.

I hope this stream of thought makes sense in my haste to present it to the group.

[mmc45414]

Under the stress of the moment, I think retaining the handheld light is going to be more instinctual because it's already in-hand and illuminating the threat.

I think my instinct would be to grab my gun with both hands if I am about to shoot it, because I have fifty years of reps doing that.

Regarding some of the other pro-choice comments, I like having it as an option, but rarely exercise that option in public. By focusing on one type of pistol it is simplified a bit, since I have a stack of M&Ps it is easy to clamp a light onto one of them, and I did buy a couple holsters (OWB, IWB). A while back I figured out that if a circumstance involved me wanting a WML I wouldn't want to be looking for a WML and a screwdriver. So now I keep one at least ready to go in the safe.

But under normal circumstances (I believe Tom Givens even puts night sights in this category) there is going to be enough light in a public place to identify a target. But not all circumstances are normal, so I do like night sights, but do not have them on every single gun. I bought the IWB holster thinking more natural disaster situation, when you might not have the typical ambient electric lights.

I live in a suburban house, but we are backed up to a nature conservancy, and there are no street lights, and it can be pretty dark. When out with the dogs I have a handheld multifunction light that has several settings, one of the dimmer settings is perfect for not stepping in a turd, and the brighter setting are good for seeing if there are any eyeballs looking back at us from the woods. Typically I will have a M&P Compact or a Shield Plus (both have night sights). But the other day the coyotes were making some extra racket (never had one come into the clearing, but they sound pretty close sometimes) so I traded for the full size with the WML. If I am ever shooting past my dogs I will want to be using both hands.

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On the beep, he could either drop the handheld, draw his pistol and use his WML, or just keep the handheld light in his hand and draw and shoot one handed. Contrary to his expectation, just keeping the light on and drawing and shooting one handed was faster and easier.

I would think that would be very dependent on hand size, light size, holster type, concealment garments, WML switchology, etc., and that's only on a flat range, without movement from the shooter or target, or the possibility of multiple targets.