Originally Posted by
Sean M
My apologies for completely forgetting about this topic. I won't bother to make an excuse. I just plain forgot.
JMS brings up some solid points. Quality parts are the base for a good rifle. But like a good soup, the base is going to get you only so far.
A quality, dependable rifle is more than the just the sum of it's parts. Proper assembly, preferably by trained and experienced armorers is in order. QA/QC matters as well.
At the PSA price range, and having a choice, I would pick S&W.
No, the models in that price range don't come all prettied up with accessories or rails, or whatever, but they are subject to at least some QC/QA, and also use quality components. S&W M&P15's have also performed admirably in the field, and in training with many domestic LE agencies. In my (rare these days) night/weekend job, we see a fair share of S&W's, and rare is the specimen that cannot hold up over 1500 rounds in a couple of days. There are some. No one is perfect, and EVERYONE makes crap every once in awhile......but it is not commonplace. The smaller builders jumping into the game these days often have the attractive price tag. But what are we really saving? More often than not, it is under hard use, or harsh conditions where we see guns fail. Those not properly assembled are the first ones down, followed by those with inferior components. The "well, it is my GTHD gun, and won't swimming in swamps" argument holds up well. Right up until it doesn't. Pretending to have a crystal ball is not the same as actually having one.
If the rifle/carbine is going to sit in the safe, closet, corner, wherever.......and only see 200 rounds per year in controlled sustained or random plinking fire, then the brand is pretty irrelevant. But if the gun is going to be run hard, in serious training evolutions, and/or be relied on to work when one needs it, then a higher quality rifle is in order.
The boutique/niche/custom builders who have established reputations for outstanding performance and accuracy in a service rifle, obviously fall into the other end of the spectrum in terms of price. But that cost not only gets you top quality components, but it also gives you trained, experienced assembly based off of MilSpec, or greater standards and tolerances, high QA/QC, and in my experience, top tier customer service.
Reality is that you do get what you pay for to an extent. Especially in the realm of EBR's. Does it mean a serious or hardcore rifle/carbine shooter needs to invest in a high end custom/production custom rifle? No. Not hardly.
S&W comes in with their entry level carbines/rifles at a price competitive with most of the cheapest guns on the market. A Colt 6920 is rarely more than a couple of bills over even the cheapest POS rifles out there. In most cases, it is right around $200. Yes, you do have to shop. You can't just go to the LGS, or the first site popped on Google. But good deals are out there. I get it that these entry level guns don't come with the snoochie, look cool accessories, but if I am just getting into the AR platform, and money is a limiting factor, now is not the time to try to invest in accessories, or buy cheaper just because the cheaper gun comes with a rail. Shoot it a bit first, then look at what else you need, how it affects performance, and the trade off involved with adding it to your rifle. There is a lot of truth to the Cliche' of "If it's not a Colt, It's a copy". No one has more time putting those guns together than Colt. No one comes even close. And since they build all of their DI rifles to MilSpec, using MilSpec components, there is at least a standard. Is it the best standard? Maybe. Maybe not. Debatable for those who like to debate such things. But it is at least A standard. And it is known, and adhered to.
I also understand that money is tight in this economy, and a rifle that comes in $200 or $300 under the gold standard appears to be an attractive alternative. That savings is 2/3 of a case of ammo. But if one can get past the instant gratification urge, and salt away the nickels for a few more weeks, or even months if required, they will usually find not only satisfaction in not settling for less, but also confidence in a quality built rifle, such as a Colt. Confidence in a rifle, or any weapon system, once lost is very, very difficult to get back. All it takes is one bad example, followed up with less than stellar customer service, and confidence is gone. Plinker, or toy......no problem. Pout about it. Post on the internet about it.
Offensive or defensive tool?
Big problem.
Example:
Even though a talented, highly respected trainer, and gifted rifle shooter, who is a buddy of mine, who happens to also work for a particular company, enthusiastically endorses their product based on performance and personal experience on those guns.................Well...........I had a bad specimen once. Once. Just one example of a particular model. A long time ago. And while I totally trust his personal opinion as a friend, and without a doubt trust his professional opinion as a seasoned shooter and instructor, I have a hard time putting faith in any of them. The let down in that rifle left a lasting impression. Not what we want if we are talking about a fighting gun. Especially if we had to pay our hard earned money for it.
I have my personal preference brand for AR's, and generally, they are out of the price range for casual shooters, and even honest to goodness defensive minded shooters who can't afford, or don't want to spend that kind of money on a rifle. But I also have Colt's/DD's, and with extremely rare exceptions, have not wanted for something more. And usually when I did want for more, it was a configuration issue, not a "lack of performance based on quality" issue.
It is really hard to go wrong with Colt or Daniel Defense. Both build true MilSpec guns. BCM puts together a decent rifle as well. If stuck at entry level, lower end prices due to economical constraints, S&W can be an attractive alternative to shops that are still working out their own bugs with assembly, QA/QC, and CS. Certainly buying quality components alone, and DIY-ing the assembly puts PSA's prices into the "Say whaaaa?" category at times. But the right tools, and particulars about critical component assembly/configuration (the knowledge and experience of the builder) still come into play. I can count on one hand the number of non-professionals who own ALL of the PROPER tools to assemble from scratch all of the components the way it should be done. The way it is done by the major players, and the top custom builders. Also not everyone is limited to Al's meager time on that system.............some of us are still actually learning about it. I have all of the confidence in my ability to properly assemble an AR from parts, and I build enough personal guns for co-workers I have racked up a good deal of tools. But when my 20 years time on the gun becomes 40, I am sure I will look back and make fun of myself for being such an arrogant "know it all". Even among the school trained Colt and MIL armorers, I see a lot of light bulbs at various stages over their careers. I still get them myself, more often than I care to admit in public.
*Disclaimer* These are my opinions, and that's it. Nothing more. I am still not getting paid to be the gun police, so until that day comes, I don't get hung up on what brand of rifle, or pistol, or ammunition, or whatever a particular shooter chooses to buy and use. Your money, your gear. You know much better than I do what your requirements are, and what they are not.
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