Pull ups

[MVS]

At the police academy many years ago I did 27 on the test. A kid not long out of the Marines beat me with 28 though I wouldn't have counted many of them. I used to love lat work of all kinds. Really can't do them or dips anymore because of neck problems, but I did do one good rep last night just for this thread.

[revchuck38]

I did two today prior to my workout. I also set a pushup PR at 110 in three sets (44/34/32). I'm tired.

[Norville]

Lots of good pull-up talk but interesting to read the “either strength or cardio” posts as to what people have preferences for.

You really need both and especially as you age.

If you haven’t read “Outlive” by Peter Attia he makes a fairly compelling argument for both to fight metabolic dysfunction and sarcopenia in particular.

Personally I think body weight exercises have limited utility but the pull up is a fundamental “life movement” like getting up off the floor without using your hands.

Quoting Craig, but general comments:

Pull-ups are an important movement. I’m old, but my pull-up max in the high teens (20if I specifically train) impresses the yutes.

Too many pull-ups plus shooting can result in golfers elbow which 100% sucks.

General weight training / body building is key as we age. Not just me, Dan John says so too as sarcopenia is a thing.

Ladders 1-2-3-4-5 several times a day keeps me strong and avoids elbow issues. The fighter pull-up program is awesome if your elbows tolerate it.

I have a birthday soon and will test my max. I think I’m younger than GJM but not by much…

[Joe Mac]

Pull-ups are an important movement. I’m old, but my pull-up max in the high teens (20if I specifically train) impresses the yutes.

As a sergeant I used to challenge youngsters to a pull-up contest while wearing all our cop gear, offering a free halfer if they beat me. None of them ever did, but I'd send them home anyway just for making the effort!

[Dov]

After a lifetime of never being able to do a proper one, I ordered a bar and affixed it to my son’s long abandoned swing set in the back yard.

I can now do one or two ugly ones. Work in progress.

For most people starting with a full body weight exercise for upper body muscles is like starting bench press with body weight, or in shooting terms starting a new shooter with 12 gauge magnums or 44 magnums instead of something that is a reasonable starting point.

It is just a bad idea IMO, its simpler & cheaper not better.

With Lat pull down machine or similar you can start with a light weight to get feel for the exercise and good technique.

For someone that has been training seriously for some time there are arguments to be made about high weight low rep for gains, but that is more akin to a master shooter using a hard kicking gun on occasion to find and remove slight weaknesses in technique. Not the place one should start with.

Getting a weight that is light enough with lat pull down machine, or enough assistance with pull up/chin up so you can do 10+ reps comfortable for the first warm up set will be lot better path to success for someone new to the exercise or even for those who used to do the exercise that haven't done them for long time due to health/injury/life.

Not only is it easier on your body, but you will see noticeable gains sooner, which really helps with motivation. I think you will actually see faster gains that way until at least first or second plateau as well. Your also far less likely to injure yourself with that approach.

For people new to exercises or returning after some time I like 3 to 5 sets with first set being 14 to 16 reps that's pretty easy for warm up. Going slow and focusing on technique.

Gradually increasing the difficulty with each set per workout while reducing the reps.

I also strongly urge people to keep a workout diary/log, its a PITA but it will provide lot of benefits.

[JHC]

For most people starting with a full body weight exercise for upper body muscles is like starting bench press with body weight, or in shooting terms starting a new shooter with 12 gauge magnums or 44 magnums instead of something that is a reasonable starting point.

It is just a bad idea IMO, its simpler & cheaper not better.

With Lat pull down machine or similar you can start with a light weight to get feel for the exercise and good technique.

For someone that has been training seriously for some time there are arguments to be made about high weight low rep for gains, but that is more akin to a master shooter using a hard kicking gun on occasion to find and remove slight weaknesses in technique. Not the place one should start with.

Getting a weight that is light enough with lat pull down machine, or enough assistance with pull up/chin up so you can do 10+ reps comfortable for the first warm up set will be lot better path to success for someone new to the exercise or even for those who used to do the exercise that haven't done them for long time due to health/injury/life.

Not only is it easier on your body, but you will see noticeable gains sooner, which really helps with motivation. I think you will actually see faster gains that way until at least first or second plateau as well. Your also far less likely to injure yourself with that approach.

For people new to exercises or returning after some time I like 3 to 5 sets with first set being 14 to 16 reps that's pretty easy for warm up. Going slow and focusing on technique.

Gradually increasing the difficulty with each set per workout while reducing the reps.

I also strongly urge people to keep a workout diary/log, its a PITA but it will provide lot of benefits.

Re bodyweight work, this is 180 out from my experience. A pushup for example is not a bench of your bodyweight by a long shot.

But to the OP, if the goal is pull ups you need to work on pull ups. I lat pulled like crazy and got nowhere on pull ups till I worked on pullups. I've watched friends try that route in vain as well.

I continue to marvel at how a vigorous pull up workout leaves my abs sore as well. Never saw that from lat pull downs. IIRC Charles Poliquin made the same point when training athletes to improve their upper body pulling strength. You have to get up on the bar or rings.

[Dov]

There are clearly differences between lat pull down and using a pullup bar, not sure if should call it open chained vs closed chained?

But I was talking as a starting point, for someone that weights say 200 lbs you could start with 50 lbs on lat pulldown or equiv with assisted pull up and progress to doing unassisted pullups and beyond.

For myself personally, when I was much younger was doing deadlifts and pulldowns for back no pullups and one day waiting for karate instructor to show up for class at school gym class was at noticed the big rope tied to ceiling for climbing had been left out.

Had never been able to climb one of those as little kid very far so gave it a try and basically went arm over arm without using legs to the gym ceiling before I knew it. So that definitely helped me with real body weight climbing.

I've never really compared pullups/chinups to lat pulldown directly.

I normally only do chinup and pullups when I don't have access to lat pull down machine like currently.

Personally I find it easier to add weight/difficulty with lat pulldown machine but I'm sure that is something that varies for individual.

Slinging weight plate from waist has never very worked very good for me with pullups. Though some of my lifting buddies seem to be fine with it.

[03RN]

There's a lot of great videos on YouTube on technique.

Pullups are one of those things that I should do every day but wind up just doing them twice lol.

I normally do pullups on back day and chin ups on arm day.

If I wasn't lifting I'd do pullups, chin ups, pushups, dips and call it good

[lwt16]

For most people starting with a full body weight exercise for upper body muscles is like starting bench press with body weight, or in shooting terms starting a new shooter with 12 gauge magnums or 44 magnums instead of something that is a reasonable starting point.

It is just a bad idea IMO, its simpler & cheaper not better.

With Lat pull down machine or similar you can start with a light weight to get feel for the exercise and good technique.

For someone that has been training seriously for some time there are arguments to be made about high weight low rep for gains, but that is more akin to a master shooter using a hard kicking gun on occasion to find and remove slight weaknesses in technique. Not the place one should start with.

Getting a weight that is light enough with lat pull down machine, or enough assistance with pull up/chin up so you can do 10+ reps comfortable for the first warm up set will be lot better path to success for someone new to the exercise or even for those who used to do the exercise that haven't done them for long time due to health/injury/life.

Not only is it easier on your body, but you will see noticeable gains sooner, which really helps with motivation. I think you will actually see faster gains that way until at least first or second plateau as well. Your also far less likely to injure yourself with that approach.

For people new to exercises or returning after some time I like 3 to 5 sets with first set being 14 to 16 reps that's pretty easy for warm up. Going slow and focusing on technique.

Gradually increasing the difficulty with each set per workout while reducing the reps.

I also strongly urge people to keep a workout diary/log, its a PITA but it will provide lot of benefits.

I do lat pull downs already and have for about 2 years. Currently I do dumbbell/bodyweight/machines 2-3 times a week, rucking with 30# once a week, kettlebells, elliptical, treadmill, stairs, with speed hiking on weekends. Hikes are 10 plus miles with 2,000 feet of elevation.

The pull up bar was a recent addition to all that. I do 20 mile hikes a few times each year and the pull up bar is to help strengthen my upper body for trekking pole use and overall stability.

Regards.

[03RN]

Lots of good pull-up talk but interesting to read the “either strength or cardio” posts as to what people have preferences for.

You really need both and especially as you age.

If you haven’t read “Outlive” by Peter Attia he makes a fairly compelling argument for both to fight metabolic dysfunction and sarcopenia in particular.

Personally I think body weight exercises have limited utility but the pull up is a fundamental “life movement” like getting up off the floor without using your hands.

Agreed.

Long distance 6-10 mile runs in armor pushing a stroller on trails is just as important to me as deadlifting 6 plates