Turdy-Turdy

[Frank500]

Most of my hog killing in the southeast has been with 170 Remington bullets. A few with Barnes 150 tsx or whatever they called them. I don’t think used 150s for no real reason. There are some very interesting 150s on the market occasionally but I have not tried them.
Mostly I’m running 170 partitions and Swifts for hunting and hiking the beartooths. Lots of grizzlies to deal with now do a deep penetrator is needed.

[Malamute]

Most of my hog killing in the southeast has been with 170 Remington bullets. A few with Barnes 150 tsx or whatever they called them. I don’t think used 150s for no real reason. There are some very interesting 150s on the market occasionally but I have not tried them.
Mostly I’m running 170 partitions and Swifts for hunting and hiking the beartooths. Lots of grizzlies to deal with now do a deep penetrator is needed.

I suspect the general run of 170 gr bullets, particularly the factory loads are more reliable expanders than the Speers I have from the 80s.

Yes, many more bears than in the past, and they dont stay up high any more. They come down around the neighborhood now and then and I know they are regularly about 3 miles from me, a guy I know has trail cams out. It sounds like theyve been in the park on the edge of town also.

My standard walk around gun where the bears live has been the 1886 carbine with heavier Barnes 400 gr loads or the 348 with 200 gr Hornadys or 250 gr Barnes. Ive used the 30-30 for grouse some with round ball loads and leave the magazine loaded with normal loads, but just the standard 170s. I used that a bit but then started loading some round ball loads for 348 and havent used the 30-30 as much up in the bear woods. Round balls also work fine in the 45-70. Since messing up my back its been more of an issue doing much hiking or carrying heavier guns, so the 30-30 may end up getting used a bit more. I need to see if the 38-55 heavier loads bother my shoulder very much, they seem to do good work on moose based on what the guys in Canada say. I was in Az for 8 years before here, that didnt need quite as much power in a walk around gun. I have serious aspirations of being in Az at least for winters after this one, so some of the walk around needs are different again.

[entropy]

Thanks all. Sorry for the tardy reply. In the process of moving.

I never really dove much into the 150s. When I first got the gun, I picked up some assorted boxes of factory ammo and gave it a go. For whatever the reason, the 170s just printed better. I pretty much just stopped there on the jacketed stuff. Like stated, tried various cast lead both checked and unchecked. I ran into the fat ogive issue with those. I settled on the 170gr Sierras as they seemed to be the most accurate. I tried both Varget and RL15, and the latter seemed to be a bit better. It’s all relative tho, as I’m running a Williams receiver sight with 60year old eyes. (I DO have a RDS mount from Turnbull sitting waiting to be mounted up...have high hopes.) Grafs has the 130 Speers and more 125s so I might do some midnight shopping on those two. I have NEVER had good results with Nosler, which I’m sure seems a touch odd. Whether it’s been .223, .300, .308, 7mm...I can never get them to work. Odd....I know.

Like stated, goal here is for a general purpose walking/driving around utility rifle. It needs to be equally at home on a UTV roof rack, or in my hands with snowshoes. Can’t rule out a saddle scabbard in the future either. I promised the wife I’d “try” to consolidate a bit, so here I am. If I can get a light, medium and heavy to print well from this gun, I be content. At least until maybe spring. Lol

[diananike]

From my informal YouTube research the 170gr bullets tend to penetrate a bit deeper and expand less which makes sense with the lower velocity.
I’d suggest watching a few test videos from a source like Masonleather then make a decision about what performance you’d like to see.
I was surprised at the poor performance of Nosler 150gr ballistic tip right after I bought a box for my wife as a stocking stuffer that cost me over 60$ Canadian.

[awp_101]

Can't have a PF thread without The Patented PF Thread Drift™, amiright?

Since practically every manufacturer that makes a levergun has a .30-30 in their line up (Rossi just introduced one, does New Marlin have one yet?) and Henry has their single shot, what are the chances we'll see bullet and load improvement from the ammo manufacturers? Or do the gun and ammo companies just assume the typical .30-30 user will continue on as they always have?

My first rifle was a 94 in .30-30. It hasn't been out of the house in a decade or more but going down the .30 to .32 caliber single shot rabbit hole has brought .30-30 back to mind. I found an older single shot that's been rebarreled to .30 Carbine and that's got me to thinking about the possibilities of having it re-chambered and the extractor modified for .30-30.

[Malamute]

Can't have a PF thread without The Patented PF Thread Drift™, amiright?

Since practically every manufacturer that makes a levergun has a .30-30 in their line up (Rossi just introduced one, does New Marlin have one yet?) and Henry has their single shot, what are the chances we'll see bullet and load improvement from the ammo manufacturers? Or do the gun and ammo companies just assume the typical .30-30 user will continue on as they always have?

My first rifle was a 94 in .30-30. It hasn't been out of the house in a decade or more but going down the .30 to .32 caliber single shot rabbit hole has brought .30-30 back to mind. I found an older single shot that's been rebarreled to .30 Carbine and that's got me to thinking about the possibilities of having it re-chambered and the extractor modified for .30-30.

I think with the ammo thats currently available, the main niche the 30-30 can fill is fairly well covered. Perhaps a bit like 357 loads, its reached a point they work pretty well, and the market is not the top volume one, so not much further work is being done. Im OK with the available factory loads in both, though dont use much factory ammo.

Id suggest that some of the understanding of the 30-30s capabilities have been somewhat incorrectly colored by Hornadys ad copy for their leverevolution loads. Yes, it was a step up in some regards, but the load they compared it to was the worst BC bullet on the market, not reflective of most factory loads, and the smoke and mirrors effect of the trajectory data that supplies is also very suspect. Actually, its outright BS. If one uses a more common load with better BC than their 170 gr flat point (nearly full wadcutter BC profile compared to most 30-30 bullets), and uses the same sight height and zero range as they did with the leverevolution loads instead of lower/closer, the difference is not nearly so astounding as the ad makes it appear. Its deceptive at best. Zero 1 1/2" high @ 100, 1.5" line of sight height, run the numbers on the actual bullet being used and learn the trajectory and see what it shows.

Another aspect thats rampant on the net, the oft repeated statement "The 30-30 was designed for close range woods use". Uh, no, Ive never seen anything of the sort in period information, it has become the common close range deer caliber, but was designed as a high velocity long range hunting cartridge. Comparison with other, faster loads and pointy bullets in bolt actions have eclipsed it relatively speaking, but the design was as a high velocity/high power long range hunting round compared to the black powder cartridges in common use at the time. It was absolutely amazing to those that used it in its early days for how flat it shot and how well the little bullet performed. Many laughed at it when they first saw one, then quickly became converts once they saw it used. Theodore Roosevelt used one when they first came out and reported very favorably on it as an antelope cartridge.

Reliable expanding bullets, reasonable trajectory within the ranges used, mild recoil, light guns are all reasons its been as popular as it has, and still is in relation to newer guns and rounds. Like many other things, its "enough" for a lot of uses, but without much fanfare or glitter.

I todays world its a fair 200 yard cartridge, some people may be able to make good use of it farther out. Its not that hard to hit with out to 250-300 yards depending non what youre expectations and use is. Bullet expansion is the issue past 200 or so yards, assuming one can hit with it. Id like to see some lighter bullet factory loads again, but load my own as needed. In the past it had 110 gr small game/light loads, medium level 110 gr loads, and variations of the other common weights. The 160 gr full jacket load was available into the early 1960s I believe for use by prison guards and police use.

I dont recall the time frame of this, Im thinking 1920s but not positive. Initial loads were 160 gr at somewhat modest velocity, then became 170 gr, the 150s came about a little later.

[awp_101]

I think with the ammo thats currently available, the main niche the 30-30 can fill is fairly well covered. Perhaps a bit like 357 loads, its reached a point they work pretty well, and the market is not the top volume one, so not much further work is being done.

Thanks, that makes sense. It hit the "if it's not broke, don't mess with it" stage, much like .30-06 I suppose. The early 90s was probably the last time I pad any attention to the .30-30 so I just didn't realize it.

[Malamute]

Thanks, that makes sense. It hit the "if it's not broke, don't mess with it" stage, much like .30-06 I suppose. The early 90s was probably the last time I pad any attention to the .30-30 so I just didn't realize it.

Thats probably a fair comparison. Yeah, theres some specialty stuff available in 06, but its not really required for most of what people use 30-06s for. None of this is to say advancements arent good, but do you really need the most advanced possible technology or $75/box ammo to hunt deer or elk at the ranges and conditions most do?

[gato naranja]

Another aspect thats rampant on the net, the oft repeated statement "The 30-30 was designed for close range woods use". Uh, no, Ive never seen anything of the sort in period information, it has become the common close range deer caliber, but was designed as a high velocity long range hunting cartridge. Comparison with other, faster loads and pointy bullets in bolt actions have eclipsed it relatively speaking, but the design was as a high velocity/high power long range hunting round compared to the black powder cartridges in common use at the time. It was absolutely amazing to those that used it in its early days for how flat it shot and how well the little bullet performed. Many laughed at it when they first saw one, then quickly became converts once they saw it used. Theodore Roosevelt used one when they first came out and reported very favorably on it as an antelope cartridge.

There has been a lot of that over the years. Perfectly good combinations of gun and cartridge that get eclipsed by the latest and greatest incremental improvement until for some reason enough experts have pronounced that that it no longer does what it used to. Which is pretty nuts when one stops and thinks about it.

As I have said elsewhere, there have been so many different .30-30 rifles out there in so many degrees of serviceability that each one may not be a law unto itself, but it might as well be. If I still ran a .30-30, I'd still be likely to rely on what "Der Alter" insisted: 170gr > 150gr.

[camel]

There has been a lot of that over the years. Perfectly good combinations of gun and cartridge that get eclipsed by the latest and greatest incremental improvement until for some reason enough experts have pronounced that that it no longer does what it used to. Which is pretty nuts when one stops and thinks about it.

As I have said elsewhere, there have been so many different .30-30 rifles out there in so many degrees of serviceability that each one may not be a law unto itself, but it might as well be. If I still ran a .30-30, I'd still be likely to rely on what "Der Alter" insisted: 170gr > 150gr.

People also don’t either have the time to shot deer. Or don’t have the ability with the 30-30.