Turdy-Turdy

[entropy]

Yeahyoubetcha.

I was looking to get some additional utility out of an old 94 for general use. It never liked 150s. Shoots 170s well. My experiments with cast lead and Unique were a disaster. The whole experiment was shelved. I recently found myself in need of a really handy utility rifle. Out of the safe it came. I hunted down some 125gr JHPs as well as a box of the big old 190gr Barnes. Gave it a go. To my surprise, it REALLY liked the 125s. 3/4”-1” @75–ish yards with iron sights. I’ll take it. The Barnes didn’t do so well, but may try to experiment a bit more. I’m not yet at max charge weight and have only used a single powder...RL15. I’d be happy with the 125s for “less than deer” and the 170s for “dear and above” however. Super light recoil, not very loud either. Bonus in that they seem to hit same POI as the 170s too. No speed on them yet as I want accuracy first. I’ll clock them when I go back and fine tune the load.







The 190gr Barnes all hit a good 5”-6” low. It looks like the 30.5gr may be a place to fiddle around at. It would be nice to have a big thumper load if I ever run into the møøse that bit my sister.

[Malamute]

One of our members here, I know him IRL, but disremember his username here, has shot a fair bit of game with various 30-30 bullets, hes very favorably impressed with the 130 gr Speer bullets on game to antelope and deer, and believe he has mentioned he has or would not be bothered using them on black bear due to their performance on other game. I dont recall if hes used the 125s. I have some of both and want to shoot them and see if my gun likes them.

Ive used the Speer 110 gr hollowpoint bullets a bit, not on paper for group size, but shooting some squirrels. Obviously a bit overdone on squirrels, but a light recoiling load that has some potential for other uses.


Something for others reading this to keep in mind, the results of any individual person or individual gun can vary widely, many report very good accuracy results with 150s, other seem to shoot best with 170s, some say they cant tell any difference, they all shoot well. As with other firearms, further testing of variations in bullet make, powder or primer choices often produce different results. One of mine shot Hornady 170s better than Speer 170s, that may be opposite anothers results even with the same make and model gun. The only way to know what your gun will like is to try them, and if initial results arent the best, some load development or gun tinkering may yield improvements. Theres been numerous methods figured out over the years intended to improve lever action accuracy, some actually work, at least for some people.

Edit: A good resource for 30-30 loads is on Shootersforum.com, a guy using the name William Iorg and a handful of others have done extensive load work with all sorts of 30-30 bullets, guns, game, and similar cartridges like 30-30 AI, 307, and the marlin variant. Very good stuff if you geek out on such things. A basic search on the speer 130 gr,
https://www.google.com/search?q=Spee...-wiz-serp#ip=1

[entropy]

Well THAT link is a rabbit hole! Lol. Thanks tho...appreciate it. I never knew those Speers existed. Something else to try perhaps. I would like something that’s effective on “Yote+ size critters”. We got a lot of those around. The JHP seems suited to them. Now that I know they’re accurate, maybe search around the web for some test data or just plug one and see what I get.

My 94 has a very shallow throat. That was my issue with the cast. I’d force the slug into the rifling closing the action on most bullets I tried. Wide meplats didn’t help the issue one bit. These are goo tho, and the Speer looks like it would work as well. Thanks again for the link.

[Malamute]

Well THAT link is a rabbit hole! Lol. Thanks tho...appreciate it. I never knew those Speers existed. Something else to try perhaps. I would like something that’s effective on “Yote+ size critters”. We got a lot of those around. The JHP seems suited to them. Now that I know they’re accurate, maybe search around the web for some test data or just plug one and see what I get.

My 94 has a very shallow throat. That was my issue with the cast. I’d force the slug into the rifling closing the action on most bullets I tried. Wide meplats didn’t help the issue one bit. These are goo tho, and the Speer looks like it would work as well. Thanks again for the link.

Yes, good rabbit hole. William Iorg and his correspondants in Oz and the states have done a lot of load experimenting and testing, true enthusiasts, and very knowledgeable.

I messaged the guy I mentioned, he said "The Speer 130 is a great bullet. Killed lots of deer and antelope with it and never recovered a bullet. All exited." He also mentioned the 125 gr Sierra HP was a bomb on varmints and good accuracy.

I was hoping he may stop by and post. He is knowledgeable on cast bullets in this use as well. Ill leave it up to him to go into any more detail on the subject if he makes it by to post. His comments on the 130 gr Speer reflected similar experiences of William Iorg as I recall reading them some time back when curious about them.

The lighter bullets allow higher velocity for easier hits at a little further distance than 30-30s are commonly used at, and the Speer bullets are a higher BC than most 30-30 bullets, also helping in that regard. Its not anything earth shaking, but if you do your calculations, its a noticeable difference in the 200-250 yard range bracket with a "On" or a little high @ 100 zero.

The castboolits forum has unbelievable amounts of info on all types of cast loads in about every imaginable caliber. Its one of the late night places to get lost reading when one cant sleep and wondered about some obscure bullet mold and its loads and usefulness. I have a couple molds for 30 cal I want to try, the Lyman 170 gr flat point GC and a 77 gr 32 auto bullet that looks like it will be a nice ultra-light load candidate, just a step up from a .315 round ball. The 112 gr flat point Lyman mold works nicely in my 94s with 6 1/2 grs Unique in the 32-20 power range for small game. I forget the mold number, its a 4 digit number. I bought a pile of them from a guy that cast them years back and still have plenty.

[entropy]

I tried all types of cast in this thing. Never very good. Maybe I just didn’t hit the right combination tho. I have another set to run through the 25-20 this week if I get the chance. I’m still trying to see if I can find a decent combination with that. It’s well worn. I have some 85gr coated that are...passable. I’m still hoping to find a combination with the 60gr JSPs that will at least make it more than a noisemaker. If not, the decision to rebarrel, toss in back of safe, or sell will be next.

[Frank500]

I’ve used 170 partitions, 170 Hornady and 170 Speer on game up to cow elk. Have a few 190 Barnes left, they might go further in meat and bone.
Like maker says, I’ve shot deer and antelope with the 130 Speer flat nose. Heck of a bullet unless you live in grizzly country.
Cast bullets in my 30-30s
The lyman 31141 sized to .310 is pretty good. Used it years ago with 3031 and 4895. Killed deer and varmints.
NOE 30/195 (?) is a heck of a bullet. I shoot it the standard and Ackley improved. Put the finishing touches on a monster hog in the standard 30/30. Cup nose and hollow nose at twenty yards and closing. ALL of the bullets exited a 5 to 600 pound hog.
I size them to .311. Takes a larger neck expander to not collapse the neck on the Ackley. The standard little thirty is more accurate with these than the improved. The improved cartridge shows more gas cutting than the standard. The standard 30/30 showed more velocity than the improved with accurate loads. I use leverevolution powder exclusively in my 30/30s. Excellent accuracy and good velocities. Velocity is 2150 for the 200 grain flat nose in either cartridge in 24” barrels. My pre war model 64 short rifle is a little slower velocity of course.
William Iorg has shot piles of lever action ammunition and has written many posts about it. The important measurement is in front of the rim across the case. With the micrometer jaws touching the front of the rim, the case shall not measure over .421. Over that dimension is too much pressure.
The 30/30 is a wonderful and useful cartridge even today.

[Caballoflaco]

If you need some music to reload too.

[Malamute]

I’ve used 170 partitions, 170 Hornady and 170 Speer on game up to cow elk. Have a few 190 Barnes left, they might go further in meat and bone.
Like maker says, I’ve shot deer and antelope with the 130 Speer flat nose. Heck of a bullet unless you live in grizzly country.
Cast bullets in my 30-30s
The lyman 31141 sized to .310 is pretty good. Used it years ago with 3031 and 4895. Killed deer and varmints.
NOE 30/195 (?) is a heck of a bullet. I shoot it the standard and Ackley improved. Put the finishing touches on a monster hog in the standard 30/30. Cup nose and hollow nose at twenty yards and closing. ALL of the bullets exited a 5 to 600 pound hog.
I size them to .311. Takes a larger neck expander to not collapse the neck on the Ackley. The standard little thirty is more accurate with these than the improved. The improved cartridge shows more gas cutting than the standard. The standard 30/30 showed more velocity than the improved with accurate loads. I use leverevolution powder exclusively in my 30/30s. Excellent accuracy and good velocities. Velocity is 2150 for the 200 grain flat nose in either cartridge in 24” barrels. My pre war model 64 short rifle is a little slower velocity of course.
William Iorg has shot piles of lever action ammunition and has written many posts about it. The important measurement is in front of the rim across the case. With the micrometer jaws touching the front of the rim, the case shall not measure over .421. Over that dimension is too much pressure.
The 30/30 is a wonderful and useful cartridge even today.

Thanks for coming by and adding to the discussion Frank. I figured youd have some interesting things to add.

The 311041 is the Lyman mold I have. I need to do some casting.

I was morally opposed to glass on a 94 in the past but have come to appreciate it much more over time. The Leupold bases and low rings are very good with the Leupold 1-4 M8 scope, it sits low, its right where Im looking when I throw it up to my shoulder.

[03RN]

I once had a Simmons 1.5-5 on a m94 ae and it kept its handling qualities pretty well.

I'm currently.30-30less but have a good amount of reloading stuff for them. I have several hundred of the speer 125 jhp and Barnes 150gr copper bullets. I'd always stuck with 170s but wanted to experiment with the lighter stuff.

I sold my last m94 before of any on game testing was done unfortunately.

[Malamute]

I once had a Simmons 1.5-5 on a m94 ae and it kept its handling qualities pretty well.

I'm currently.30-30less but have a good amount of reloading stuff for them. I have several hundred of the speer 125 jhp and Barnes 150gr copper bullets. I'd always stuck with 170s but wanted to experiment with the lighter stuff.

I sold my last m94 before of any on game testing was done unfortunately.

The old school recommendations were generally "the 150s work well, but use the 170s because". There was something implied in that about the 170s being better for whatever. I followed that advice, shots mostly 170s of Hornady and Speer make. Way back in the 1900s "wet lap" (newspaper damped in water overnight in a box) was considered a good test medium. I shot both makes side by side into wet lap, the Hornadys expanded more, the speer not so much, still a basic mushroom shape, just in the front 1/3 rather than halfway back.

The 94s were mainly walk around guns, which has been pretty much a daily thing most of my life. To actively hunt anything above rabbits of both types and coyotes Id usually use a scoped '06. When I did shoot several deer with 94s, the Hornadys worked pretty well, boom, deer goes down. The speers, I question if they expanded enough, two deer I shot with them had no reaction at first other than surprise at the sound of the shot, and I hate to say the first one I thought I missed so stopped and checked zero, still good. The second one I hit several times with decent hits before It went down and stayed down. My bullets were 1980s vintage, I dont know if there were some harder ones at the time or what, but that and my gimpy shoulder made me look further into the 150s.

The general run of comments on 150s in print was they worked well, most often shot through, and seemed to put deer down faster than the 170s....but you should use the 170s because. Because what? I never looked deeper into that until recently. Why use the 170s if they didnt put deer down as fast? The 150s seemed to do whatever was needed. Granted the rest of the world had better results with the 170s than I did, and I may have had a glitchy batch, but it made me look at other bullets. Im curious if Frank has used the 150s on game and how they performed in comparison.
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