Magnacut vs. other steel (split from Spyderco fanboy)

[RealSelf]

I'm going to bow out here so that it doesn't appear I have a dog in this fight or need to defend CPK, or any knife maker for that matter, as I have many friends across the industry both here and internationally.

I don't know how many CPKs you own, or have handled, but your dismissal of them doesn't have the ring of truth to it in my experience nor that of many other experienced knife users. (I've only been carrying knives since 1957 or so.)

None of the CPKs which I own are "chisel-like" in performance , especially not the DEK 3 which is ground very thin for excellent slicing performance, while still retaining durability. (I will agree that many of the patterns are (purposely) overbuilt while retaining excellent ability for the field use they were designed for.)

(By the way, Jeff Randall is a friend of mine of many years, and we've spent many hours together both in FL when he visited, as well as at the Blade Show over the years. I own several of his blades, so I can back up what I say.)

That's all I got.

You see I'm not just singling out CPK as having heavy geometry, this is almost the entire industry that grinds this way as it limits warranty returns and pictures on the internet of big blown out primary grind chips. The problem is, if you do a lot of cutting and begin looking at lower edge angles performance in a way that allows you to see what actually happens then it's clear that real performance sort of begins below 15 DPS. The DEK 3 you describe may have thinner geometry BEHIND the edge but I wouldn't and do not even grind double bit felling axes at 18 DPS. I did one for a client (I do high end sharpening work) that weighed 4 lbs., nice vintage Swedish forged double bit and it came in below 14 DPS at the most obtuse portion at just behind the apex which was a microbevel at just over 15 DPS. The owner has told me that it's held up beautifully in chopping.

The difference is obviously the axe will be allowed to thicken much more behind that 14 DPS bevel but the point remains that is all that's needed to support very heavy impacts on wood under great mass and leverage advantage. Again, if you intend to cut metal and other very hard objects then 18 DPS is fine and warranted but how many people use knives for this? There is a cold chisel for a reason, it cuts very hard materials under the mass and leverage advantage of a mallet If you do this a lot then you want a cold chisel, not a knife. In actual use even an edge bevel that is 10 DPS w/ 15 DPS micro-bevel will be quite difficult to damage as in requiring coming in contact with inclusions (staples, nails etc) in cardboard or wood and even then it is very minor damage that is just visible. Repair is swift and more importantly cutting performance is fantastic.

Again, CPK just happens to be one example of this common practice. Years ago Buck Knives came out with what they called the 2x edge, meaning it would give twice the performance and edge retention compared to a 'standard' knife edge. The only difference was this edge was ground much more acutely (around 12.5 DPS, similar to Mora grind angle). Makers have to overbuild knives because they don't know how much of an idjit the user will be, if you understand how to cut things in a smart way and how to optimize your knives then you can actually end up with an efficient cutting tool and not a 'knife-like object'.

[Leroy Suggs]

@RealSelf You need to start your own thread about knife grinding and sharpening .
This thread is to compare Magnacut to other steels. Not about how shitty all knife makers (except you) grind and sharpen their knives.

So guys let us talk about Magnacut vs other steels please.

[Clusterfrack]

@RealSelf You need to start your own thread about knife grinding and sharpening .
This thread is to compare Magnacut to other steels. Not about how shitty all knife makers (except you) grind and sharpen their knives.

So guys let us talk about Magnacut vs other steels please.

This sounds like a great idea. I'd like to know more about knife grinds.

[Up1911Fan]

Is S45VN less "chippy" than S30V?

[Blades]

I may need to try Magnacut. My favorite steels are M4(regular and CPM) and CruWear. If Magnacut can hold an edge like them and I can still sharpen it with my little pocket Spyderco sharpening stones then I'm interested.
When I start pontificating about knives, I advise people to buy a knife they can sharpen-- if it's going to be a user. If it's going to sit and do nothing then buy whatever you like. I want to be able to use my knife, and be able to sharpen it easily.
So, please tell me more about Magnacut.

[blues]

I may need to try Magnacut. My favorite steels are M4(regular and CPM) and CruWear. If Magnacut can hold an edge like them and I can still sharpen it with my little pocket Spyderco sharpening stones then I'm interested.
When I start pontificating about knives, I advise people to buy a knife they can sharpen-- if it's going to be a user. If it's going to sit and do nothing then buy whatever you like. I want to be able to use my knife, and be able to sharpen it easily.
So, please tell me more about Magnacut.

MagnaCut is not difficult to sharpen and like Cru-Wear takes and holds a very fine edge. The idea was to create a "stainless" steel with characteristics similar to Cru-Wear and M4. I think it roughly splits the difference in toughness and edge retention. With Cru-Wear tougher, and M4 more wear resistant.

I think you'll be pleased. Most seem to feel a hardness of 63-64 is pretty much spot on for MagnaCut but not everyone publishes their data.

I've used a Sharpmaker with mine...with good results. Also 1 micron diamond spray on basswood.

[Blades]

MagnaCut is not difficult to sharpen and like Cru-Wear takes and holds a very fine edge. The idea was to create a "stainless" steel with characteristics similar to Cru-Wear and M4. I think it roughly splits the difference in toughness and edge retention. With Cru-Wear tougher, and M4 more wear resistant.

I think you'll be pleased. Most seem to feel a hardness of 63-64 is pretty much spot on for MagnaCut but not everyone publishes their data.

I've used a Sharpmaker with mine...with good results. Also 1 micron diamond spray on basswood.

Thank you Blues.
Tell me more about the diamond spray on basswood? Why that instead of a fine diamond rod?
I use my ultrafine Spyderco bench stone for final sharpening but it's too big for my edc bag.

[blues]

Thank you Blues.
Tell me more about the diamond spray on basswood? Why that instead of a fine diamond rod?
I use my ultrafine Spyderco bench stone for final sharpening but it's too big for my edc bag.

It's not either-or...it's more just what I'm in the mood to use.

I don't think stropping is necessary, for a long time I would only strop on my jeans. But the 1 micron diamond on basswood gives a nice finish...with a little bit of bite. It's quick too.

I also have the ultra fine rods and very fine diamond hones...but I usually only use the brown rods or bench hones from the Spyderco set these days.

Just depends on the day or the mood. The sharpening gear is as addictive as the knives.

I have a friend on bladeforums who goes by northwest knife guy that I get the strops and diamond spray from.

[Up1911Fan]

How does Maxamet compare with Magnacut or Cruwear?

[joshs]

How does Maxamet compare with Magnacut or Cruwear?

Completely different application. Maxamet is a high edge retention steel while sacrificing toughness and stain resistance. Magnacut (and to a lesser extent Cruwear) are more balanced steels (good toughness, edge retention, and stain resistance). Although Cruwear isn't all that stain resistant and Magnacut is the most stain resistant steel I've used other than steels specifically made for that purpose like H1 and LC200N.

ETA: I'd recommend looking at the steel rankings here for a good idea of how each steel will perform. https://knifesteelnerds.com/

Keep in mind that actual performance is more effected by edge geometry than what steel is used. And, edge geometry is generally a direct trade off between cutting performance (including edge retention) and toughness. Heat treat is also a major factor as higher hardness improves edge retention and helps resist edge deformation (toughness).