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Thread: Production 15 in '24

  1. #1
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    Production 15 in '24

    Current board drama aside.

    This is something that should have happened back in 2005, my choice would have been 17 rounds, but finally this overdue attempt fix to the division based on the original intent for having it will now come to pass before next shooting season kicks up.

    I do not think this is going to draw lots of current shooters back to the division. The sport is an optics and 9mm minor sport at this point at the club level, with the other divisions dying in terms of what most competitors choose.

    While I am not part of the target demographic for production, I suspect it will be my choice for 50% of my matches next year because of this change, so maybe it is just a super senior over the hill boomer thing with me. I like my production guns. It is still what I carry most often. The mag changes have annoyed but never completely deterred me and I know it annoys the piss out of most people.

    When Production came into being back in the late 90's it was 100% about giving completely new shooters a non-gear centric entry point into the game. I hope it can still be that.

    It was of course 10 rounds because it came to existence during the Klinton ban, when 10 rounders were all that came with a new gun and all that could be purchased for a new shooter unless you wanted to shell out $75-100 per mag for prebans if you even knew where to find them. Sadly it will still have to be shot that way in the communist states on the west coast and the northeast.

    I think however the high number of magazine changes it entailed had really become discouraging to new shooters in this era. Perhaps this mitigates that some.

    We ran a 2 hour intro to USPSA class this year for our club members who had never been to a match. We have done this for two decades and it has taught us that at the club level, removing the intimidation factor of not knowing what to do, or fear of looking stupid for the first match kept many people from even trying the sport. This inoculation absolutely works and removes the mystery and fear factor for many. Getting those new shooters from the ranks of our club is essential to keeping a supply of help for setting up and running matches.

    It drew about a dozen people, at least half of whom I know starting shooting this year. 2/3 of those shooters showed up with iron sighted guns suitable for production division. I shot the demo on our 28 round stage set up for the class as production and my partner in putting together that class shot his carry optics rig. All those folks noted that I had done 3 mag changes (to make best use of the "movement only" space there was, and not have a mag change in the middle of a shooting position) and my compadre had only one and how it cost me time and shifted my focus a bit during movement.

    But all of them had 17 and in many cases 20 round mags. Our discussion at the end of the session was either about them wanting to get an optic for their current gun and learning the dot or them asking if they were ok if they shot limited minor. None of them, all just discovering the game, wanted to really try production. That was only about the number of mag changes they perceived they did not want to deal with.

    I think for a new shooter, learning to plan the stage, and then trying to remember everything as they work their way through it, the extra mag changes production currently imposes are an unnecessary distraction. This 15 round thing may or may not change the perception of the division for that originally intended audience for production. As always we shall see.
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  2. #2
    Not sure If I want to switch to L10 minor or dump another $100+ into mags

    It won't draw anyone away from CO and as I was informed after shooting a 45 round stage, apparently 32 round limits are no longer a thing at level 1s So nothing is really changed...
    But hey it's in line with IPSC now for the 6 people who actually shoot both!


    Ok now that's out of my system.

    Seeing this coming for over a year I am looking forward to see if there is anything substantially different about how the game plays,
    and how/if they adjust the HHF on some of the classifiers. This spring could be a good time to push a bit.

  3. #3
    Had to keep up with IDPA going to SSP15.

    I think it will be a drop in the bucket, the present perception is that if you haven't got a dot you just aren't With It.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemas2 View Post
    Not sure If I want to switch to L10 minor or dump another $100+ into mags

    It won't draw anyone away from CO and as I was informed after shooting a 45 round stage, apparently 32 round limits are no longer a thing at level 1s So nothing is really changed...
    But hey it's in line with IPSC now for the 6 people who actually shoot both!


    Ok now that's out of my system.

    Seeing this coming for over a year I am looking forward to see if there is anything substantially different about how the game plays,
    and how/if they adjust the HHF on some of the classifiers. This spring could be a good time to push a bit.
    Why would you have to buy new mags to go from 10 rounds to 15 rounds?
    "Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JCS View Post
    Why would you have to buy new mags to go from 10 rounds to 15 rounds?
    Because I only have 10 rounders for my shadow 2. I live on the border of NY so half my matches are there. Plus it's easier to just load em up after a stage and not have to worry about counting.

  6. #6
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    Central FL
    There's a Level 1 match an hour or so north of me in Gainesville FL on 1/7/24.

    Does anyone know if this (15 round in Production) is "go" as of 1/1/2024? If not no problem, I'll just go and ask the MD if I end up registering.

    I am in between optics and would just run iron sights for this match, hence the question.

  7. #7
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    takes effect officially on 1/31
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  8. #8
    Site Supporter MGW's Avatar
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    Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemas2 View Post
    Not sure If I want to switch to L10 minor or dump another $100+ into mags

    It won't draw anyone away from CO and as I was informed after shooting a 45 round stage, apparently 32 round limits are no longer a thing at level 1s So nothing is really changed...
    But hey it's in line with IPSC now for the 6 people who actually shoot both!


    Ok now that's out of my system.

    Seeing this coming for over a year I am looking forward to see if there is anything substantially different about how the game plays,
    and how/if they adjust the HHF on some of the classifiers. This spring could be a good time to push a bit.

    How much participation is there in L10 minor?
    “If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi

  9. #9
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemas2 View Post
    ... it's easier to just load em up after a stage and not have to worry about counting.
    For that reason alone, I just ordered some of the factory 15 round Glock 17/34 mags and factory 15 Beretta PX4 full size mags.

    I am intensely annoyed by having to dump partial mags and count rounds to reload them in the middle of match for old production division or IDPA, as opposed to just topping each of them off. I never fully trust the witness holes for accomplishing the top off accurately, especially since I cannot see small stuff like that anymore.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MGW View Post
    How much participation is there in L10 minor?
    Wouldn't be the first time I competed against myself

    Quote Originally Posted by fatdog View Post
    For that reason alone, I just ordered some of the factory 15 round Glock 17/34 mags and factory 15 Beretta PX4 full size mags.

    I am intensely annoyed by having to dump partial mags and count rounds to reload them in the middle of match for old production division or IDPA, as opposed to just topping each of them off. I never fully trust the witness holes for accomplishing the top off accurately.
    For CZ and sig mags, Henning recently started making a follower with an adjustable screw that limits the capacity of full size mag, I might look into those. I have to either get new base-pads or followers anyway since mec-gar change the shape of the follower retaining pin.
    https://www.henningshop.com/Detail.a...2238&CAT=10024

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