Current State of the Entry-Level/First AR Carbine

[CSW]

I did this same think in May of this year.

I wanted a simple quality AR, without breaking the bank. Didn't want any rail systems, or fancy do-dads.

Went with the FN Patrol. Ended up just under a grand for the carbine, then added an MRO, a light I had around, a sling and the LaRue trigger. Had a BAD Lever on it, but that's been removed.

It's been stellar, very accurate, and easy to operate.

[SecondsCount]

After experience with friends, family, and entry level competitors-, my recommendation is some kind of midlength variant from PSA

It isn't always easy to get an entry level person to drop a grand on an AR. There have been several times over the last 10 years that I have recommended PSA and the buyer found a local built Anderson, Bear Creek, Strike or other low grade AR for $50 to $100 less.

Most people that fall into this category are going to buy the AR and shoot a couple times a year. If they decide to start shooting more seriously, they can always upgrade.

For ease of buying, there are several small FFLs in my area that will buy the upper and lower assemblies from Palmetto and put them together for the customer.

[HCM]

I did this same think in May of this year.

I wanted a simple quality AR, without breaking the bank. Didn't want any rail systems, or fancy do-dads.

Went with the FN Patrol. Ended up just under a grand for the carbine, then added an MRO, a light I had around, a sling and the LaRue trigger. Had a BAD Lever on it, but that's been removed.

It's been stellar, very accurate, and easy to operate.

The FN AR’s actually made by FN, such as the Patrol and the Tac 2/3 are great guns.

However, given the topic of the thread, it’s worth noting that FN’s latest “budget” offering, the Guardian not really an “FN” rifle. It’s a rifle assembled by FN from other peoples parts, including the barrel (not an FN barrel). Adding insult to injury, rumor has it it’s a Bear Creek Arsenal barrel.

It’s essentially a $500 rifle which FN is selling for $1k because it says “FN” on it.

Not like other companies haven’t done the same. Some of you will remember that around the time of the Sandyhook panic when Colt sold rifles built on Anderson recovers by a 3rd party. Though if I recall correctly those at least had Colt barrels.

[Sasage]

BCM has blem uppers for a little over $600 on their website and they throw in a BCG. Primary arms has blem lowers for $340 or $299 if you are qualified...

Both my lowers are BCM blems but look and function 100%

[pangloss]

I don't have any experience with this rifle, but it caught my eye. Might be worth looking into...

https://geissele.com/el-jefe-16-5-56mm-black.html

[HCM]

I don't have any experience with this rifle, but it caught my eye. Might be worth looking into...

https://geissele.com/el-jefe-16-5-56mm-black.html

Hop’s review / roast below is spot on.

This is not a “super duty” rifle with an ALG rail.

Like the FN Guardian the “El Jefe” is a straight up “give’ em trash and take the cash” deal - a $500 rifle with a cheap mystery barrel made by someone else and a knock off swamp fox optic being sold for $1200 because it says Geissele on it.

I can’t see any reason to buy this with the current pricing on Colt and BCM being the same $$ or less.

[Nephrology]

who makes a well-gassed 11.5" upper for a reasonable price?

Eventually would like to replace my cheaper SBR uppers for something that wont' need an adjustable BCG, but not in a rush.

Also just might get a couple BRT gas tubes as the uppers are basically good enough for my purposes as long as they feed/fire/extract suppressed and unsuppressed.

[Clusterfrack]

who makes a well-gassed 11.5" upper for a reasonable price?

Eventually would like to replace my cheaper SBR uppers for something that wont' need an adjustable BCG, but not in a rush.

Also just might get a couple BRT gas tubes as the uppers are basically good enough for my purposes as long as they feed/fire/extract suppressed and unsuppressed.

My BCM 11.5” ELWF (enhanced lightweight fluted) is my go to home defense carbine. It works great suppressed and unsuppressed with 5.56 ammo.

Edit: showing out of stock at this time.

[UncleGabby]

The FN AR’s actually made by FN, such as the Patrol and the Tac 2/3 are great guns.

However, given the topic of the thread, it’s worth noting that FN’s latest “budget” offering, the Guardian not really an “FN” rifle. It’s a rifle assembled by FN from other peoples parts, including the barrel (not an FN barrel). Adding insult to injury, rumor has it it’s a Bear Creek Arsenal barrel.

It’s essentially a $500 rifle which FN is selling for $1k because it says “FN” on it.

Not like other companies haven’t done the same. Some of you will remember that around the time of the Sandyhook panic when Colt sold rifles built on Anderson recovers by a 3rd party. Though if I recall correctly those at least had Colt barrels.

Thanks for this info. I got an FN Patrol in ‘20 and a Tac II in ‘22, both for under a grand. I only have 700-800 rounds through the Patrol (no issues), none through the Tac II. Recently heard about FN’s sketchy sales practices and was concerned that what I thought were great prices were not so much.

[DDTSGM]

Hop’s review / roast below is spot on.

This is not a “super duty” rifle with an ALG rail.

Like the FN Guardian the “El Jefe” is a straight up “give’ em trash and take the cash” deal - a $500 rifle with a cheap mystery barrel made by someone else and a knock off swamp fox optic being sold for $1200 because it says Geissele on it.

I can’t see any reason to buy this with the current pricing on Colt and BCM being the same $$ or less.

Did I miss where he actually handled or shot the thing?

Even though it was largely a mocking of their advertising, a couple things I agree with - G doesn't match upper and lower colors for shit, although to be fair, they warn you of that. Additionally, that pistol grip looks to be an awful design.

Although I'm not a fan of the B5 SOPNOD, a lot of folks are.

I would ditch the sling and qd swivels and instead include an ambi-safety, pretty sure cost wise it be a wash. The ambi-safety is something the entry level user isn't likely to be able to do themselves, OTOH, anyone can attach QD swivels to a sling and rifle.

All in all this video is a perfect example of how youtube videos often give folks more exposure than they warrant.