Check Your Carry Ammo

[Tom Givens]

I got this report last night from my good friend, Rob Haught, who is a police chief in WV, as well as a prominent trainer. This underscores the advice I keep giving to carefully inspect every round of carry ammunition. You bet your life on the ammo you carry.

We had an OIS with two State Troopers serving an arrest warrant on a 60 year old male for battery. On entry to his house he engaged both with a handgun striking one 4 times and the other once. During the gunfight the most wounded Trooper experienced a catastrophic malfunction of his G17 when a .40 cal round would not feed. How it got into his magazine is being investigated. The Trooper just underwent surgery to amputate his leg above the knee. BG died on scene. I know we preach checking our duty ammo but this is a verifiable case of why.

[BillSWPA]

Very good point.

A few weeks ago, I cycled the carry ammo out of two of my guns and their spare magazines. I carry concealed and work behind a desk, so ammo I carry is not exposed to much moisture or abuse. Having been through a couple of ammo shortages, I dislike wasting perfectly good, not inexpensive JHP ammo. This ammo had been used for carry in the guns or spare magazines for . . . much longer than most would consider smart.

Out of 77 cartridges I had 5 failures to fire with the first primer hit. All cartridges fired with the second primer hit.

I am very glad to have fresh ammo in those guns.

I also swapped out the magazines themselves. The springs had been compressed for multiple years. I understand that the cycles place much more wear and tear on springs than compression, but compression does make a difference over time. When I tested those magazines during the same shooting session, they would not feed reliably while other magazines fed the same guns with no problem.

Those magazines now have new springs and are in my range bag for the next practice session.

Two lessons learned, fortunately at comparatively little cost.

Edited to add: #1 in the original post in this thread is relevant: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ter-Gun-Fights

[JCN]

Out of 77 cartridges I had 5 failures to fire with the first primer hit. All cartridges fired with the second primer hit.

Question for you (not trying to be a smartass):

What gun, any modifications and what ammo brand?

To me it sounds more like hard primers and a weak striker spring or other gun / ammo interface rather than a freshness issue?

It's a reason I really like Federal HST, their primers are very soft and rarely fail (I can't remember the last time I've had one fail at any age or cycle).

[BillSWPA]

Question for you (not trying to be a smartass):

What gun, any modifications and what ammo brand?

To me it sounds more like hard primers and a weak striker spring or other gun / ammo interface rather than a freshness issue?

It's a reason I really like Federal HST, their primers are very soft and rarely fail (I can't remember the last time I've had one fail at any age or cycle).

All worthwhile questions. The guns were a gen 3 Glock 19 and gen 2.5 Glock 26. They have stock firing pins and firing pin springs. I use NY1 trigger springs and 3.5 lb. connectors. They rarely or never fail to ignite my CCI Blazer Brass practice ammo.

The ammo was Cor-Bon 115 gr. 9mm +P. I have shot at least hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds of Cor-Bon in 9mm and .45 with no issues, although it gave some light strikes in a North American Arms .380. I switched to Winchester JHP in that gun, which solved the problem.

I started using Cor-Bon because that is what the gun rags of the 1990's raved about. Now that I have the ability to check DocGKR's sticky threads, if I recall correctly, he is more concerned about accuracy, reliability, and availability with 9mm JHP, since most provide decent performance. As I use up my supply of Cor-Bon, I will likely move to something from one of the larger manufacturers, most likely a 124 gr. +P.

[JCN]

All worthwhile questions. The guns were a gen 3 Glock 19 and gen 2.5 Glock 26. They have stock firing pins and firing pin springs. I use NY1 trigger springs and 3.5 lb. connectors. They rarely or never fail to ignite my CCI Blazer Brass practice ammo.

The ammo was Cor-Bon 115 gr. 9mm +P. I have shot at least hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds of Cor-Bon in 9mm and .45 with no issues, although it gave some light strikes in a North American Arms .380. I switched to Winchester JHP in that gun, which solved the problem.

I started using Cor-Bon because that is what the gun rags of the 1990's raved about. Now that I have the ability to check DocGKR's sticky threads, if I recall correctly, he is more concerned about accuracy, reliability, and availability with 9mm JHP, since most provide decent performance. As I use up my supply of Cor-Bon, I will likely move to something from one of the larger manufacturers, most likely a 124 gr. +P.

Thanks for humoring me!

I’d consider refreshing the striker springs and cleaning out the striker channels if you haven’t done so recently.

Since the ammo lights off on second strike attempt, if I were going to use that ammo in your gun I would even consider going to a stronger weight striker spring to combat it.

Replacing the striker itself to get a sharper tip might also help some too.

[BillSWPA]

Thanks for humoring me!

I’d consider refreshing the striker springs and cleaning out the striker channels if you haven’t done so recently.

Since the ammo lights off on second strike attempt, if I were going to use that ammo in your gun I would even consider going to a stronger weight striker spring to combat it.

Replacing the striker itself to get a sharper tip might also help some too.

Yes, and as you mentioned considering ease of setting off the primer when selecting ammo will be a higher priority.

[SeriousStudent]

I am very sorry to read that the Trooper lost a leg. That is a terrible injury that will impact him and his family and friends.

[1Rangemaster]

@Tom Givens - thank you for the report/reminder. Years ago, on a qual, I had a hard jam with a 147 gr. duty round. I cleared it bu running the top of the slide and rear sight against the barricade(initial tap/rack didn’t work). Tuens out the case mouth was crumpled and I had not seen it when just casually loading the magazine.
Nowadays, I look at each round and shoot my carry load out every 6 months. Shades of Fairbairn and Shanghai!
On the failures to fire- @BillSWPA: if the hits are [U]off center[LEFT] and light, it could be the piece is not fully in battery.

And I regret not recognizing the trauma suffered by the Trooper. And it being the holidays, the pain is more intense. I hope the recovery for both is as good as it can be.

[feudist]

I saw some bizarre things across my career.
We had to buy duty ammo from a list instead of being supplied departmental stuff. Finding underloaded magazines was commonplace.
Finding range supplied training ball was nearly as common.
Ammo was routinely carried for years, even decades. Unauthorized brands were a constant(Reading is for fags. Though, to be fair, our R&R was approximately 6 inches thick and apparently deliberately designed to be obscure and contradictory).
Empty chambers weren't common but happened, either through carelessness, child safety concerns or simple stupidity. One guy carried an empty chamber in a level 3 holster over gun grab concerns. He was stupid in other ways too.
The worst were a guy that showed up for qual unable to pull the trigger on his HK USP. There was a piece of gravel in the trigger mechanism. "When's the last time you fired this?" "Last qual, and I cleaned it here." Yep, same red gravel.
One guy realized hs gun was condition three while being chased in circles around his car(my damn car too!) and took several seconds(six hits on my car) to return fire.
Finally during a hospital gunfight one guy's Glock 17 would not fire. He racked multiple rounds into it while a 10mm struck the Coke machine next to his head. At the range the next day it wouldn't fire either.
When detail stripped, there was about 8 years worth of belly button lint and hardened oil in the striker chamber.
Cleaned out, it went bang.
I hope Cop Guardian Angels get a pay differential.

[JohnO]

Reading this thread made me go see what it was like to put a .40 S&W round into a G17 9mm magazine. You can definitely get it in there and put 9mm rounds down on top of it. The .40 cartridge does not go into the magazine as smoothly as a 9mm round but I certainly could see how someone could do it if they are not paying attention.