Which pistol class to take at Rogers?

[pangloss]

I am going to register for a class at Rogers this year, but I'm not sure which class would be best. My thinking is that the basic/intermediate class would be best, but the suggested performance requirements for the intermediate/advanced class are about where I am now. I've taken several classes from well known traveling trainers (Givens/Spaulding/Hearne/Ellifritz), but I don't have any IDPA/USPSA ratings to offer as a performance metric. Anyway, getting in some remedial instruction in the basic class seems like a better experience than being overwhelmed in the advanced class. If anyone has taken either or both classes, I'd appreciate some guidance. Thanks.

[1Rangemaster]

I went to Rogers a few times, and sent a daughter to “ Basic”. I managed to get the “gold” pin twice, but a bit frustratingly not the red Rogers pin for top class shooter(most plates down). I also got a tutorial over a couple of days from Ronnie Dodd(RIP, sir) when he had a Rogers range setup. I credit that with giving me a good foundation on my dot journey.
I would say if you are easily discouraged, go to the Basic class. The problem is you will almost assuredly want to go back! It’s a demanding school: a bit physical-lot of standing- but my demon was thinking about what I had just done and not focusing on what was next on the tests. Got past that near the end of the week to eke out a gold score.
Rogers himself has said he will have a few students just quit nearly every class. I saw that happen a couple of times. But, one can power through mentally. Plenty of folks have done it, to include @GJM and his champion wife, Charlie. There are videos on YouTube and the founder of this site, the late Todd Green(RIP, sir-thanks for all your contributions) had a sort of guide to the plate sequence. There are no surprises; the sequence is on the wall of your shooting station.
The usual recommendations apply: have your gear sorted- a spare piece is not a bad idea, and have comfort items like a chair, snacks, fluids,etc. They will shoot rain or shine or sleet-covered shooting points. In the Basic class(unless they changed radically) you’ll start with an issued .22 rimfire. I used iron sighted Glocks for my Rogers days; an ACRO optic when working with Dodd.
No matter what level, you will probably get to a point where you will shoot a string, all or most plates will be down, and you can’t quite recall how that happened-true automaticity I think. I’ve been fortunate enough to get to several schools, but Rogers IMO gives one the best technical testing I know of. I’m still working on support hand. Best of luck and good on ya for training.

Edit to add: run a 9 if you can-2,000+ rounds is a lot. You also have supervised homework in the evenings, so it’s immersive. I’ll finish by saying even if you get to basic level, that is better technically than a lot of shooters, LE included.

[YVK]

Anyway, getting in some remedial instruction in the basic class seems like a better experience than being overwhelmed in the advanced class. If anyone has taken either or both classes, I'd appreciate some guidance. Thanks.

Disclaimer: I have not taken basic. My only class there was a regular class. What I understand of their methodology, basic is the same course of fire but shot with a 22lr. If you think through it, it is a reduction of stress and tension related to the act of shooting itself so you can concentrate on getting used to the pace of plates, memorize their appearance pattern etc. That way, when you pick up a centerfire gun, everything else is familiar and not as stressful. To me their basic is not as much a remedial instruction but a habituation process. I'd say take a regular class. There's a training methodology and some tips to do decently there, happy to send a pm if you'd like.

[Totem Polar]

@GJM to the courtesy phone

[CCT125US]

The COF is displayed and memorized? That seems.... odd.

[GJM]

My wife and I have been to the Rogers school a half dozen times or so, but the last time was five or more years ago, so I don't have information about them circa 2023. I have a different take on the basic course than YVK does. First, the progression is 22 revolver, 22 semi automatic, then 9 mm center fire as progressively more goals are met. The goals aren't memorizing targets, but rather learning to press the trigger without disturbing the sights. The reason Bill starts with a .22 revolver, is pressing a long, heavy trigger while steering the sights is very developmental.

Bill Rogers thinks that most shooters would benefit from taking the basic course, but their pride, or is the word ego, pushes them into the principally testing oriented Advanced/Intermediate course so that they can see their "number." Bill says that his shooting at the Advanced/Intermediate class is always significantly better, when he has taught the basic course the week before. Taking away recoil, unmasks imperfections in trigger technique.

If I was starting a shooter from scratch, I would send them to the Rogers basic class to start, and follow that up with API 250 at Gunsite, to get the mindset experience.

[GJM]

The COF is displayed and memorized? That seems.... odd.

Rogers is not a "tactical" class, it is a technical shooting class, with 50 percent of the school test being left and right hand shooting only. While most beginning shooters are likely sufficiently overwhelmed to not understand the school test has an order, by mid week most figure the order out. As an aside, Todd Green caused that order to be widely known by publishing a set of videos of each school test. The difficult part of the school testing is not the order, it is the shooting.

[1Rangemaster]

@GJM to the rescue again! I had forgotten some of the details, and he is spot on with the rimfire revolver and then evolving on from there. Having done a lot of dry practice with a snub nose two summers ago, I have to say he has a point in suggesting the Basic first. Be warned though, you'll want to come back!
That the course is known is not a deficit; plenty of quals and evals are well known to those being tested. The shooting is the focus-two handed, main hand and support. Reloads are tested plenty, with both hands. Bill has a somewhat unique take on trigger work: the press and flip, etc. There is a low light evolution also in the I/A class.
It's been several years since I attended also, and I understand Bill has stepped back a bit from running the class every day, but still lectures and demos.
Best of luck-I'm a bit envious...

[YVK]

I was getting ready for my dry fire session and found this




Fond memories.

[pangloss]

Thanks, everyone for the info. Sounds like there are pros and cons to both possible decisions, but neither strikes me as the "wrong" decision. I went ahead and registered for the basic/intermediate class in April. Starting with a .22LR revolver won't offend my ego. I'd intended to take a class there this year, but after they posted the schedule, I screwed around trying to figure out what was "best" for me and everything filled up before I registered. Repeating that mistake again this year would be the worst possible outcome, so I'm happy to take that possibility out of the equation. Hopefully it'll be a great experience and I can take the intermediate/advanced class later.