I got some good advice re: occluded dots here:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Occluded-MRDS
I got some good advice re: occluded dots here:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-Occluded-MRDS
When we first started learning about red dot scopes there were a lot of different teaching on how to get that first shot off fast. Perhaps the biggest idea is to pick a spot on the target and bring your gun up and point at the spot. It works fine.
I've shot a dot since the beginning, especially for Steel Challenge matches. Let your eyes do the work. Starting at the low ready I make sure I'm looking at my dot. Gives me the confidence that it's on and at maximum intensity. Look at target #1 and burn a hole into the center of the target. After many practice runs moving your eye first and then the gun to the spot you can break 1 second for the first shot.
Quickly look to target #2 and snap your eyes to the center point. Your hands will follow...Keep it up. Repetitions help. Starting at 7 yards, the closest target ( also the closest the steel can be shot in USPSA) you can work on muscle memory.
Dry fire. A lot.
Occlude the dot.
Remove iron sights.
Shoot matches.
What you need to do in dry/ live practice will be evident.
Just my opinion
Originally Posted by HCM
I think that's a valid approach.
Here is another opinion / methodology:
JJ Racaza and Max Michel don't endorse occluded optic FWIW.
I target focus with my dominant eye. Occluded pistol optics means you target focus with your non-dominant eye.
Chew on that a little.
Now think about long guns... do you target focus with your dominant eye, non-dominant eye or both... or do you reticle focus?
For long guns, I still dominant eye target focus (especially with magnification). I'm looking at my target and "noticing" my reticle dancing and drifting over my target.
(Note, I can scope shadow a magnified optic and use non-dominant target focus as an occluded rifle dot but it's not optimal and not the norm for my "best use" of optic)
That is why I don't like occluded window pistol training.
I'm trying to train my dominant eye to look at the target and not the dot.
Dot brightness and reticle choice help me with that a lot.
YMMV.
There is also the confusion that is common when talking about target focused and front sight focus. Have to define terms and understand that people often mix, match and conflate.
Some people are talking about focal plane (which is the original definition, I think) but other people are talking about attention and tracking (like "mental focus").
So for red dots:
I visually focal plane target and mental focus on the target. The reticle comes to me as I'm fixed on the target. I'll glance at the reticle and track it in, but I'm focal planed and mentally focused on the target (that doesn't mean I stare at it the whole time). I do this primarily with my dominant eye and use the non-dominant eye for binocular depth perception and adjustment, especially if I'm moving.
For irons:
I visually focal plane usually intermediately between the front sight and the target. Sometimes I'll hard focal plane on the front sight if accuracy is needed... but I'm MENTALLY FOCUSED on the target, even if my visual focal plane is nearer and the target is fuzzy in the vision. I'm still fixed on the target with my attention.
An occluded dot can help some people learn to shoot with both eyes open, and not focus on the dot. As @JCN wrote above, that doesn't work for everyone.
Some people's eyes will not converge on the target while the dot is occluded. The eye behind the occluded dot may focus at a closer focal plane. That means that the dot will appear to be superimposed on the target, but won't actually be aligned with it. It's the same reason most people can’t shoot a carbine with night vision on the left eye while looking at the dot with the right eye.
I've played with an occluded dot, and it worked ok for me. I didn’t find any advantage, probably because I shoot target focus--even with iron sights.
Last edited by Clusterfrack; 12-19-2023 at 02:33 PM.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
Dot occluding is not for everyone, and it’s not necessarily the way to go 100% of the time. It is a great training tool if your vision allows it.
Dot brightness and reticle choice can be factors. Too bright or too busy can make it hard to target focus. Same with having a really bright fiber on an iron sight gun.
I don’t think Ben/ Joel/ Hwansik, or Mason have a red dot specific classes. I think that’s telling.
My 11 y/o daughter started shooting USPSA in ‘23. Her dot has been occluded since day 1. So far so good.
It could just be telling that their primary student base is people who already have a certain baseline of skill and / or already shoot irons target focused.
Their customer base is not the norm in either respect.
IME maybe 20% of “red dot classes” is about red dots and the other 80% is fixing things someone training with one of those instructors is already going to be competent in.
Last edited by HCM; 12-20-2023 at 07:01 PM.
So the OP already bought an RDS equipped gun.
However for those transitioning to optics (rather than new shooters) I would recommend limiting your variables.
I.e. if you primarily shoot Glocks add an optic to a similar Glock, don’t try to learn optics and a new platform at the same time.
Reply With Quote