.45 acp in 2023/24

[Noah]

The .45 ACP, even the +P versions are simply low drama setups in my experience.

They just tend to run and run. As compared to the 10mm, they are substantially less finicky. When discussing non 9mm platforms, the Glock 21, or HK USP simply will function under a wide variety of conditions and will hold up to an extremely high round count.

Most my experience (in .45 ACP) outside the 1911 centers around the G21 (with a good bit of time on the G30 series). The various G21s will handle a substantial round count, are accurate beyond most people's ability or reasonable expectations, and require extremely little in terms of maintenance.

As far as field performance, the heavy .45 slug is one that has been getting it done for well over a century. Essentially the formula of a heavy for caliber .44 or .45 from the low 900s to around 1,000 FPS has been killing all manner of man and beast since the Indian Wars, the Philippine war in the late 1800-early 1900s , the Pancho Villa Expedition, etc. The formula has been killing American Buffalo (Bison), mounted soldiers and their horses, Grizzlies, you name it.

It was used in the original U.S. Army issued .45 Colt revolvers as a black powder load. Now you can get essentially the same performance in a semi auto pistol that is easier to shoot, and has a substantially higher on board capacity, with a much faster reload, though I don't think reloading is overly important in most field incidents.

My own personal experience has shown that the heavy slugs will punch right though heavy bones and muscle. It does not rely on expansion and penetrates in feet rather than inches. It does not get the press these days as most don't know anything about high performance .45 ammo. They simply know the old 230 grain ball ammo which is usually doing 750-800 FPS. Heavy 250 flat point hard casts at over 900 FPS are a whole other animal.

They are by far my favorite field load, as they are right at that "Goldilocks" sweet spot in terms of recoil and fast, accurate shooting. More often than not these days, when I grab a handgun for carrying in Grizzly country, it is a .45 with heavy loads.

Every post you make lately makes me want a Glock 30 again.

I'm all in on 9mm/G19s for real suburban midwest dad use, but I reload 250 grain .45 Colt for an SAA clone to scratch the itch.

[shane45]

Information based on reading and nothing else but 250 grn at around 900 fps seems to be HIGHLY regarded for defence against dangerous animals so it seemed to make sense that 45acp could be pretty close to that thus maybe pretty effective too?

[Noah]

Information based on reading and nothing else but 250 grn at around 900 fps seems to be HIGHLY regarded for defence against dangerous animals so it seemed to make sense that 45acp could be pretty close to that thus maybe pretty effective too?

Yes- with the caveat that for 2 legged targets not requiring as much penetration as a 500lb animal, a 9mm JHP that expands to over .45 in caliber and penetrates well over 12" is very likely to be "just as good" while offering more ammo and less recoil in an easier to carry gun. Yes, a .45 JHP will expand even more and be even more capable vs bone and barriers, but I think it's a tough sell that the slightly larger permanent (actual) wound cavity is worth it for the costs.

If you actually need more penetration through thicker bone, then yeehaw.

And for .45 ACP vs .45 Colt, yes, you can basically duplicate loads in each, though the ACP will be higher pressure due to the smaller case.

[BobM]

This thread is tempting me to get a M&P45 or two.

[Trooper224]

Information based on reading and nothing else but 250 grn at around 900 fps seems to be HIGHLY regarded for defence against dangerous animals so it seemed to make sense that 45acp could be pretty close to that thus maybe pretty effective too?

Having dropped a bull elk with just such a load, I can attest to its efficiency.

Higher sales for 10mm than .45acp? Don't doubt it a bit. The10mm is sexy again, the 45 has just been getting it done forever, so it's not shiny anymore. Most of those 10s are being bought by people who just want a seat at the cool kid table. Can you imagine the result if Staccato introduced one? When the 10 fades again, and it will, the old half ninety will still be chugging along.

[Colt191145lover]

Information based on reading and nothing else but 250 grn at around 900 fps seems to be HIGHLY regarded for defence against dangerous animals so it seemed to make sense that 45acp could be pretty close to that thus maybe pretty effective too?

For heavy bone and meat penetration, very similar. I doubt animals could tell little difference between the modern 45 ACP cast loads of today,and the original 45 Colt BP load issued in 1873 .
The 45 Colt does have a bit more flexibility with heavier bullets and/or a larger meplat , the 45ACP is limited due to case size, OAL and feeding reliability in a autoloader. I'm partial to Lost River's 270gr 45 Colt load when kicking around outdoors and I'm packing guns that need standard pressure loads.

[Archer1440]

This thread has me feeling rather good about having lots of .45 components and a smooth running Super 1050.

One nice thing is the sheer versatility of the cartridge with just a minor adjustment to powder throw. 4.9 grains of VV N320 behind a 230 grain projectile gives you a soft shooting, but still major PF round for games, while 5.7 grains of the same drives it to over 920 fps at a 211pf, effective for all sorts of shenanigans, but still easily controlled and with remarkable consistency.

[GJM]

Bill Wilson told me a few years ago, that while they build a number of calibers, including 10 mm, his preference in a 1911 is the 45 with super loads over hot 10 mm loads.

[SwampDweller]

The .45 ACP, even the +P versions are simply low drama setups in my experience.

They just tend to run and run. As compared to the 10mm, they are substantially less finicky. When discussing non 9mm platforms, the Glock 21, or HK USP simply will function under a wide variety of conditions and will hold up to an extremely high round count.

Most my experience (in .45 ACP) outside the 1911 centers around the G21 (with a good bit of time on the G30 series). The various G21s will handle a substantial round count, are accurate beyond most people's ability or reasonable expectations, and require extremely little in terms of maintenance.

As far as field performance, the heavy .45 slug is one that has been getting it done for well over a century. Essentially the formula of a heavy for caliber .44 or .45 from the low 900s to around 1,000 FPS has been killing all manner of man and beast since the Indian Wars, the Philippine war in the late 1800-early 1900s , the Pancho Villa Expedition, etc. The formula has been killing American Buffalo (Bison), mounted soldiers and their horses, Grizzlies, you name it.

It was used in the original U.S. Army issued .45 Colt revolvers as a black powder load. Now you can get essentially the same performance in a semi auto pistol that is easier to shoot, and has a substantially higher on board capacity, with a much faster reload, though I don't think reloading is overly important in most field incidents.

My own personal experience has shown that the heavy slugs will punch right though heavy bones and muscle. It does not rely on expansion and penetrates in feet rather than inches. It does not get the press these days as most don't know anything about high performance .45 ammo. They simply know the old 230 grain ball ammo which is usually doing 750-800 FPS. Heavy 250 flat point hard casts at over 900 FPS are a whole other animal.

They are by far my favorite field load, as they are right at that "Goldilocks" sweet spot in terms of recoil and fast, accurate shooting. More often than not these days, when I grab a handgun for carrying in Grizzly country, it is a .45 with heavy loads.

I can't like this post enough. I do still think there's something to be said for a big .45 caliber, heavy bullet at moderate but brisk velocity getting things done for a very long time. I also remember being able to participate in organizational testing and observing that .45 Gold Dots seemed to have less deflection through auto windshields.

The Glock 21 is my finest shooting pistol. For some reason I shoot it better than any other gun and any other caliber. I can't explain why that is so, but the targets don't lie. For just a slight sacrifice in split times compared to a 9mm, I get amazing accuracy. The gun is more capable of accuracy than I am.

Man this makes me want a .45 revolver even more now.

[SW CQB 45]

I was issued a G21 in 1993. AFN710 was the serial number if I recall correctly. I shot it a lot. I had access to armorers parts, so I kept my piece fresh. We finally got an upgrade in 2011 with SF frames but I never shot it much as I was packing 1911 since approval in 2008. I did not buy my first Glock 21 as I did not have any attachment to it even though I carried that gun for 15 years.

I did buy my first issued for $129 in 1993.



My dad gave me a super blackhawk .44 mag way back but I could not shoot that gun with a regular grip. It was too painful as my hand was too big for the small grip.

a few years ago, I replaced that Blackhawk with a Bisley gripped 44 special Ruger.

Getting back to .45, there aint nuthin wrong with a G21. Gen 5 MOS, that would be the shit.