.45 acp in 2023/24

[SwampDweller]

Have you read Todd Green's long-term test of the HK45 or P30? If not, I recommend it. They're both a great read. Warning, the HK45 test will make you want to buy one. Here is a link to what I believe is the last post in the HK45 series. https://pistol-training.com/hk45-end...hirty-seven-2/
This is another link that should pull up the entire HK45 series for you. https://pistol-training.com/?s=hk45

I used to be a pretty high-volume 45 ACP shooter. Mostly through 1911s. It does wear on you after awhile. I took a class with a 1911 and shot close to 1k rounds on the first day. I think that is my highest single-day round count of 45. I definitely felt it that evening and the next day. I invested in reloading, though, and settled on a pretty mild round for most of my shooting. There is a lot to be said for practicing with something similar to what you carry, but for practice on mechanics, I don't see anything wrong with a low-pressure round. It's not like the recoil goes away. I can't imagine of shooting 1000 rounds in a day of a full power round. But I have about 20 years on you. Hell, things usually hurt just getting out of bed.

I have read them, but it's been a while and I'll be reading it again.
I've shot a decent bit of 1911s, and I find the HKs and G21s to feel like they transmit less jarring to the hand during firing with full power 230gr ammo. That said, I would like to develop a milder load for shooting in quantity.

[Exiledviking]

I've shot quite a few "Gallery" matches where 28 steel targets ranging from 5 inches up to 10 inches in various forms are used with my HK USP9c with the hybrid match light LEM trigger and been surprisingly successful with it. We shoot at 14 yards against the timer and I'm usually in the top 5 against mostly 1911s and CZs and some Glocks. While not Bullseye shooting, it's a precision oriented match under pressure of the timer.

The fun .45ACP load I developed is a 230 gr plated bullet over 3.8 grs of Clays. It cycles most of my 1911s and it's soft shooting. Once I'm through those bullets I'll be switching to a 200 gr coated bullet over either E3 or Sport Pistol. I haven't had any luck finding Clays for sale locally.

And I agree with the above sentiments in that my polymer framed .45ACP pistols tend to transmit less recoil to my hands generally.

[SwampDweller]

Warning, the HK45 test will make you want to buy one.

It does make me want one a little bit at least. I've told myself the USP 45 fills my full size .45 caliber HK needs. But damn! He says that he doesn't think another .45 pistol could do what the HK45 did, but I would think the USP would be well set up to. For a while I debated on whether to get the full size or not, but I figured it'd be good to get one that's a bit more concealable than my USP's.

PS: Seeing Larry Vickers firing the last of the test... damn, how things changed.

[SwampDweller]

Good news! Today my HK45C went past the 1000 round mark without a stoppage, and more mags and a JMCK holster have been ordered! That's 1075 rounds in exactly one week (granted, with cleaning/lubrication in between range sessions, I wasn't trying to see if it could do it without cleaning, though it probably would have). My skills with the HK45C LEM trigger have improved tremendously. Still need some work as I still shoot a little bit low and left sometimes, but my groups have tightened up considerably and the pistol is quite accurate. I'm looking forward to carrying it. I would like to find some night sights for it that are more fine/precise while still being suitable for carry. The XS tritium sights are decent, but the front sight and it's dot are kind of large (these are not the XS Big Dot sights, its some other more traditional 3 dot but the front is still somewhat large).

Bad news: My second G21 Gen 5 had the exact same second-to-last-round stoppage once in 318 rounds fired as my other G21 Gen 5 had. Different mag, different gun, same stoppage with the rear of the round sticking down in the magwell. The fact that it happened on two different Gen 5 G21s with different fresh (and verified) mags at similar round counts on the 12th round in the fully loaded 13rd mag does make me wonder a little. It only happened once with each pistol, and it didn't happen in the 40 rounds I shot afterwards, but it's an awfully specific stoppage, one I've never seen in tens of thousands of rounds through Gen 3 and Gen 4 G21s...



Accuracy, even at speed, with the G21s is still laser-like to the point where I'm back to carrying my G21 Gen 4 over the USP 45 I was carrying before. It's just too easy to make one ragged whole with a 13 round mag every single time. I can always put the bullet exactly where I want it and know its going there. Even if there is no advantage ballistics-wise in carrying a .45, I simply shoot it measurably better than any 9mm I've ever shot before, and have all the confidence in the world with it when I'm carrying it.

[SW CQB 45]

by chance you mark the mag this happened to twice?

if not, should it happen again, be sure to mark that mag.

dont take the following information as your problem and I am only going what I saw from 93 to 2018 when we were G21 and had well over 125 of them.

I found that G21 issues were mostly related to the shooter and limp wristing which would cause the slide to short stroke.

I would also find that some G21 reliability issues were related to officers not cleaning and lubricating their gun. I was called out to a gun that locked up (no trigger function). I had to hammer the trigger pin out. The trigger pin had built up dry grunge on it. I cleaned and lubed it... it ran fine afterwards.

I think Glock fixed this problem but in the 90s, the Glock coiled mag spring, two coils would hang up on each other and cause poor feeding.

a co worker buddy is big on CZ P10 and has thousands of rounds through his piece. He was talking crap while we were teaching an academy class and he was demonstrating a drill and one of his rounds fed underneath the feedramp causing a malfunction. We threw rocks at his CZ but its never happened again. We found nothing wrong with the gun. I think he was running + mag extenders and he took them off.

[SwampDweller]

These were 2 different mags, both fresh and had previously had no problems. I threw the mag away it happened on the first time with my other G21 Gen 5 as I have over 70 of them.
@SW CQB 45 (meant to do as a reply)

[Bucky]

I found that G21 issues were mostly related to the shooter and limp wristing which would cause the slide to short stroke.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, that is still a gun malfunction. As long as you are not impeding the movement of the slide, the gun should function reliably. Of course that is my opinion, albeit a strong one. YMMV.

The first person I ever met that was involved in a civilian shooting, he took around from a PPK in the wrist. His gun continued to function, even though he could barely hold on to it. Ironically, it was a Glock 21.

I would also find that some G21 reliability issues were related to officers not cleaning and lubricating their gun.

OK, that is entirely on the user. Of course, that is compounded by the rhetoric the Glocks do not need oil. Still, use as directed.

I was at the range one day and someone came from the opposite end and asked me to look at his buddies brand new Glock 17. He said it wasn’t functioning, could not get through a single mag. Before I even walked to the other end of the range, I grabbed my oil bottle of FP 10 I went down to the other end Took a look at the gun, then oiled as appropriate. Handed it back to him, watched him run a few magazines, and he was good to go. They were surprised that I knew what to do before I even looked at it. I’ve come to learn , it’s the same as in tech-support. Reboot, then call me if it still doesn’t work.

[SW CQB 45]

[QUOTE=Bucky;1549119]I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, that is still a gun malfunction. As long as you are not impeding the movement of the slide, the gun should function reliably. Of course that is my opinion, albeit a strong one. YMMV.

The first person I ever met that was involved in a civilian shooting, he took around from a PPK in the wrist. His gun continued to function, even though he could barely hold on to it. Ironically, it was a Glock 21.



but yet the fix is to lock your wrist. I tried for yearssssssss to limp wrist a glock 21 and could not.

I have seen heavily used AR rifles short stroke by shooters (male and female) being to (as Garth would say from Waynes World) squiggly, but yet the fix is the person.

[SwampDweller]

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, that is still a gun malfunction. As long as you are not impeding the movement of the slide, the gun should function reliably. Of course that is my opinion, albeit a strong one. YMMV.

The first person I ever met that was involved in a civilian shooting, he took around from a PPK in the wrist. His gun continued to function, even though he could barely hold on to it. Ironically, it was a Glock 21.



OK, that is entirely on the user. Of course, that is compounded by the rhetoric the Glocks do not need oil. Still, use as directed.

I was at the range one day and someone came from the opposite end and asked me to look at his buddies brand new Glock 17. He said it wasn’t functioning, could not get through a single mag. Before I even walked to the other end of the range, I grabbed my oil bottle of FP 10 I went down to the other end Took a look at the gun, then oiled as appropriate. Handed it back to him, watched him run a few magazines, and he was good to go. They were surprised that I knew what to do before I even looked at it. I’ve come to learn , it’s the same as in tech-support. Reboot, then call me if it still doesn’t work.

Funnily enough I have not been able to get a G21 to limp wrist no matter how weakly I held it, even when barely holding it with just my thumb propping up the backstrap and my finger on the trigger. I tried this on multiple occasions with different G21s. There was no support beyond making sure the gun didn't fly out of my hand or flip to point in an unsafe direction. Perhaps it would happen if I was using lighter ammunition than typical full power 230gr, but the G21 isn't designed for those lighter loads. I know back in the day some PDs would use reloaded ammunition on the light side, but I think that was more in the days of .38.

I do agree with you that a pistol should still function reliably even without a proper grip, seeing as injuries and other circumstances make a bad grip a real possibility when the chips are down. Another reason I'm still kind of a fan of revolvers.

[Sensei]

I have a new Dan Wesson Specialist Optics Ready that will soon inbound to my FFL from a dealer across the country. These are the models that come optics cut from the factory and DW has plates for the major foot prints. Since DW recommends a 500-round break-in, I plan to leave the supplied rear sight plate on until the break-in period is complete at which time I’ll probably go with an Acro. This will be my only .45ACP 1911 with a red dot.