I dont have any time behind the HK you have or know what type of trigger system it has but your trigger and recoil control on the G5G21 is spot on.
Most right handers shot low and left because they move the gun when pressing the trigger, anticipation and/or recoil is going to the path of least resistance or all the above.
Is the rear sight center in the dovetail?
If you're going to be a bear….be a GRIZZLY!
Thanks, the G21 is apparently the gun for me.Originally Posted by SW CQB 45
Yes, the rear sight is smack dab centered in the dovetail as far as I can see. I think this is also confirmed because for the few times I was able to send the bullet downrange straight without moving the gun, it hit where I was aiming (the bullseye).
This particular HK45C has the LEM trigger system. It came with XS tritium sights rather than the usual light-charged ones. The front sight in particular is rather large with a big green circle surrounding the tritium lamp. I do wonder if having more precision-oriented sights like Dawsons might help.
In my smith wesson days, I had a 6906 sized 4013TSW that I was spot on with.
I tried that big XS dot front sight and matching vertical bar rear. Up close..... fricken stupid fast.
As I stepped back, I felt it was 1976 and taking my first shot.
They do nothing for trying to shoot small groups.
If you're going to be a bear….be a GRIZZLY!
I'm not sure what model of XS sights these are, but here are some pics. Rear simply has tritium lamps but are otherwise black. Front is a tritium lamp with the green circle, its pretty sizeable.
Rather than type a bunch, I've attached a screen shot of something YVK said awhile back. I can't say it came from the third tablet, but it described my LEM shooting perfectly.Second .45 dedicated range trip of 2024 (well, mostly .45 focused). Shot my other G21 Gen 5 (factory sights, no talon grips), and my new HK45C V7 LEM.
The G21 Gen 5 was easy to shoot well as always. Incredibly easy to control and make the bullets go exactly where I wanted with. No flinch. I shot a G19.5 along side with 115gr Magtech, and while I shot very well with the G19, I was measurably better with the G21.
I will need to work on myself shooting the HK45C, however. I do love the LEM trigger system and find it easier to manage than DA/SA, and I will be sending off my USP 45 FS's to have the Hybrid Match LEM installed. I believe flinch is the reason that my shots are consistently low and left, and the group sizes themselves are rather wide but do have some consistency. It's definitely me, not the gun. When I really concentrated and didn't flinch, it was bullseye every time. I don't doubt this has mechanical accuracy on par with a custom gun.
This is the first time I've shot a compact .45 in several years. I used to not have flinch with my HK45C V1 (though the safety lever would eventually cause bleeding so I got rid of it). I don't flinch with my G21's or my full size USP 45's. The G21 in particular is as close to effortless as it gets, as I've said before. I probably should've eaten a good meal before I went to the range, that might've helped. I had just had a 100 calorie small cup of cottage cheese earlier in the morning. I find it easier to steady myself after having eaten something earlier in the day.
I shot a total of 316 rounds through the HK45C. Flawless reliability as would be expected, but here is the last 8 shot group at 21 feet. Target is 12"x12". It was the last magazine of the session:
Attachment 114187
In comparison, here is the last 8 rounds I fired out of the G21 Gen 5 at 21 feet. Same 12"x12" target:
Attachment 114188
That's not my best work with the G21 Gen 5, especially at that close of range, but my excuse is that I was getting fatigued and hungry. I'd also shot about 400 rounds through the G19 I was vetting beforehand.
I'm receptive to any advice on how to improve my skills with the 45C (and the G21 for that matter). I do really like the little HK and I am committed to mastering it. Sometimes on smaller pistols I find the Hogue slipover grips to give a little bit more to hang onto. Maybe that would help? I also have granulate Talons on the way for the HK, but they got snowed in in CO before this session.
The large grip of the G21 really helps make it easy to shoot for me. Same with the USP 45 to a slightly lesser degree. I feel like if I had more to hang onto with the 45C, that could help, but at the end of the day I think it's flinch and otherwise technique that is causing me to shoot like this. In the target above I threw one round in particular.
I can sorta relate.
In 2017, I owned both a VP9 and a P30SK LEM V1. I shot the VP9 in occasional USPSA matches, and took a Frank Proctor class in Texas with it. I also carried the P30SK, and used it in my first "real" defensive pistol training class with Tom Givens in Everett WA.
I could not wrap my head around shooting both the 1/4" travel striker VP9 and 1" travel, DAO only light LEM at the same time. I'm a lefty, and those target images of yours look very familiar, just reversed (I was always low right). I ended up selling both HKs and buying a Glock 19 Gen 5. My take away from my LEM experience was that for me anyway, I'd have been better off with just shooting the LEM trigger exclusively, rather than go back and forth. That was hard to do.
Same here, when I am shooting LEM (which I am right now) I shoot, compete, and practice with nothing else. Only way it will work for me. In fact transitioning into shooting LEM takes at least 3-4 range sessions and a lot of dry fire over 2-3 weeks, even though I have personal LEM history going back to 2016.
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I don’t have as many rounds through a 1911 as some others here but still a pretty hefty amount. In my opinion chasing the round with the least amount of recoil is the wrong approach. Someone else mentioned that you can have a lower power factor but the round can still feel snappy. There are a lot of things you can do to a 1911 to tune the recoil impulse. The key is to pick a round that you like and can keep a good stock of. Then work with a really good 1911 gunsmith, locally if you can find one, and work with them to tune everything up to work for you. When you get the recoil spring, hammer spring, round, and your mechanics working together, it’s like magic. The sights lift and return to your point of aim with what feels like minimal effort. It’s like cheating.
This is an old video. I’m not shooting super fast and I’m shooting some of my reloads but I think you’ll see what I’m talking about. I’m shooting a Springfield tuned by Dustin Housel.
https://youtube.com/shorts/WMczrgphM..._krqtgALBLBzVZ
“If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi
Just to clarify, I'm not.
Ranking .45 ammo by perceived recoil and it's correlation/not correlation to p-f is just an interesting exercise for me. I don't have any 185 or 200 gr ammo to compare; everything I've shot (except for the Federal GMM) has been 230 gr. Having said that, my "categories" of Mild, Standard, Warm and Hot do in fact align with how I feel recoil in my 5" all steel Garrison, but obviously it hits people in different ways.
I may go pick up a box of zippy 185 gr to compare, in my next order. Maybe the Hornady 90904, but at almost $1 a throw at target sports, it's kinda spendy for an experiment.
Interesting. I think most of the time I was indeed letting the trigger all the way out like I do with DA revolvers. So it sounds like YVK is saying to still do the whole DA trigger stroke, but to slow down and negotiate the wall once you get to it rather than pulling straight through?Rather than type a bunch, I've attached a screen shot of something YVK said awhile back. I can't say it came from the third tablet, but it described my LEM shooting perfectly.
It is possible to let the trigger back out just enough to reset, at which point the trigger pull is just like a single action. That may not be a good idea, though.
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