.45 acp in 2023/24

[SwampDweller]

I can sorta relate.

In 2017, I owned both a VP9 and a P30SK LEM V1. I shot the VP9 in occasional USPSA matches, and took a Frank Proctor class in Texas with it. I also carried the P30SK, and used it in my first "real" defensive pistol training class with Tom Givens in Everett WA.

I could not wrap my head around shooting both the 1/4" travel striker VP9 and 1" travel, DAO only light LEM at the same time. I'm a lefty, and those target images of yours look very familiar, just reversed (I was always low right). I ended up selling both HKs and buying a Glock 19 Gen 5. My take away from my LEM experience was that for me anyway, I'd have been better off with just shooting the LEM trigger exclusively, rather than go back and forth. That was hard to do.

You may be right that in order to master this pistol I may have to shoot LEM exclusively. I hope not, though, as the G21 is my favorite gun to shoot. I don’t want to get rid of the LEM gun as I prefer it over DA/SA and it is a little bit more similar to striker fired. I wish I had a TDA HK45C to shoot side by side with the LEM to see if there is any difference. The only TDA pistols I have at this time are my USP 45 FS’s and Beretta 92s. While I’m not as accurate with the USPs compared with the G21, I’m still significantly more accurate with them compared to the 45C LEM. Yesterday was my first time ever actually shooting an LEM though, so I’m hoping I can change that over time and practice.

After a couple hundred rounds through the 45C I did some dry practice at my targets before I continued shooting, and that’s when I figured out I was flinching. I dry practiced for a couple of minutes until I wasn’t flinching and then shot the LEM, the first couple of shots without flinch put the bullets exactly where I was aiming. I know it’s me and not the gun.

[RJ]

You may be right that in order to master this pistol I may have to shoot LEM exclusively. I hope not, though, as the G21 is my favorite gun to shoot. I don’t want to get rid of the LEM gun as I prefer it over DA/SA and it is a little bit more similar to striker fired. I wish I had a TDA HK45C to shoot side by side with the LEM to see if there is any difference. The only TDA pistols I have at this time are my USP 45 FS’s and Beretta 92s. While I’m not as accurate with the USPs compared with the G21, I’m still significantly more accurate with them compared to the 45C LEM. Yesterday was my first time ever actually shooting an LEM though, so I’m hoping I can change that over time and practice.

After a couple hundred rounds through the 45C I did some dry practice at my targets before I continued shooting, and that’s when I figured out I was flinching. I dry practiced for a couple of minutes until I wasn’t flinching and then shot the LEM, the first couple of shots without flinch put the bullets exactly where I was aiming. I know it’s me and not the gun.

Getting off track, but I'll add one more comment, then stop drifting: Maybe you know this, but I believe there's a chart on the HK specific forum of springs having to do with tuning the LEM trigger press. At one point I was about to pursue this with my P30SK, as I had the nagging feeling that I'd like it a lot better if it was not the "V1" version. IIRC there's a"4.1" version that the LEM guys like. I'll defer to the HK folks here more knowledgeable than me on this. (Also as a footnote, it's my understanding a USP can be swapped between LEM and DA/SA via parts substitution. I'm not sure if that's possible/feasible, again, will defer to other folks here.

Like I said I'll stop drifting the thread (sorry). Good luck!

[SwampDweller]

Getting off track, but I'll add one more comment, then stop drifting: Maybe you know this, but I believe there's a chart on the HK specific forum of springs having to do with tuning the LEM trigger press. At one point I was about to pursue this with my P30SK, as I had the nagging feeling that I'd like it a lot better if it was not the "V1" version. IIRC there's a"4.1" version that the LEM guys like. I'll defer to the HK folks here more knowledgeable than me on this. (Also as a footnote, it's my understanding a USP can be swapped between LEM and DA/SA via parts substitution. I'm not sure if that's possible/feasible, again, will defer to other folks here.

Like I said I'll stop drifting the thread (sorry). Good luck!

I have not seen this chart. I know mine is a "Light LEM" though.

And hey, this is at least tangentially related, seeing as we're talking about how to shoot a .45 caliber pistol effectively and accurately with a particular trigger system.

[RJ]

I have not seen this chart. I know mine is a "Light LEM" though.

And hey, this is at least tangentially related, seeing as we're talking about how to shoot a .45 caliber pistol effectively and accurately with a particular trigger system.

ok then!

From a post courtesy @JonInWA:

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/which-.../#post-1246972

[SwampDweller]

ok then!

From a post courtesy @JonInWA:

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/which-.../#post-1246972

Thanks! I wonder if I could send it to HK to have the Todd Green Special spring installed? Frankly I don't trust myself to mess with the internals of HK's the way I do with Glocks. I'm sure I could, but I'd rather trust the manufacturer or an HK armorer.

[RJ]

Thanks! I wonder if I could send it to HK to have the Todd Green Special spring installed? Frankly I don't trust myself to mess with the internals of HK's the way I do with Glocks. I'm sure I could, but I'd rather trust the manufacturer or an HK armorer.

I would feel extremely confident entrusting my HK to James Williamson.

https://www.teufelshundtactical.com/service

[SwampDweller]

I would feel extremely confident entrusting my HK to James Williamson.

https://www.teufelshundtactical.com/service

That's exactly who I had in mind when I said HK armorer!

[Oldherkpilot]

Interesting. I think most of the time I was indeed letting the trigger all the way out like I do with DA revolvers. So it sounds like YVK is saying to still do the whole DA trigger stroke, but to slow down and negotiate the wall once you get to it rather than pulling straight through?

It is possible to let the trigger back out just enough to reset, at which point the trigger pull is just like a single action. That may not be a good idea, though.

I wish i had screen shot of more of the discussion. There was talk about how the Glock trigger has a wall and the LEM trigger has a wall and they seem similar but are not. Its preferable to roll through the LEM but on small targets at longer distance, some allowance has to be made for making accurate shots. I hate to speak for him, but the lesson I took was that getting to the wall and breaking the shot without a flinch response took more care with the LEM than with a Glock. I wish he would chime in here before i make a complete bollocks of his message. I still love the LEM but have returned to my traditional DA CZ pistols.

[Exiledviking]

I've mentioned this before; I shoot the LEM like a Glock trigger. Dave Sevigny told me many moons ago that he shot the Glocks from the reset. I tried that and it worked well for me. Is it the best way, no it probably isn't but it work for me. Good or bad, I shoot 1911s the same way.
So, I run the LEM trigger only far enough out to get a proper reset and then set up on the wall when shooting precisely and let the trigger break surprise me as I press against the wall.
I had never fired a double-action revolver using the double-action until I got my 3" Python 6 months ago and that has been a great learning experience and tool.

And back on topic; my favorite .45ACP load to shoot is a 185 gr JHP over 5.2 grs of W231 for a blazing speed of around 770 fps out of my 6" Clark Custom Colt longslide bullseye pistol.

[SwampDweller]

I wish i had screen shot of more of the discussion. There was talk about how the Glock trigger has a wall and the LEM trigger has a wall and they seem similar but are not. Its preferable to roll through the LEM but on small targets at longer distance, some allowance has to be made for making accurate shots. I hate to speak for him, but the lesson I took was that getting to the wall and breaking the shot without a flinch response took more care with the LEM than with a Glock. I wish he would chime in here before i make a complete bollocks of his message. I still love the LEM but have returned to my traditional DA CZ pistols.

I'll see if I can find some of it, if its still around somewhere or perhaps in an archived thread. In the meantime, maybe @YVK would have some advice?