Question for the AR experts

[DDTSGM]

I just picked up my 3rd AR, a Black Rain Ordnance Fallout 15. However I am not really well versed in them.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

TIA.

I don't think I've ever taken apart my AR-15s bolt carrer group. Hose with brake cleaner → relube → shoot

Wait a minute...

You guys are cleaning your ARs?

Just kidding. Kind of... Mine don't often get that level of cleaning, but clean or dirty I haven't had a hard time with the pin. I think I'd add a Colt replacement to my next Brownells cart and replace it.

I almost always clean after every day at the range. In this case the rifle is brand new and I wanted to clean the preservatives out of it and lube it with a proper lube. That being said I have had to fight with that damn pin every time I have cleaned my ARs. Hopefully the solid pin will be easier to work with.

Re: your statement about not being well-versed in the AR and kind of explaining what others have posted about not cleaning theirs:

Not that long ago there were many who criticized the AR's direct-impingement operating system as being too dirty for reliable function. One common phrase was 'it shits where it eats' in reference to the gases released into the upper receiver as the bolt carrier group cycles, from both the carrier and the gas tube.

People also referenced the problems with the M16's in VN, pointing out that there were reportedly stories of soldiers/Marines being found KIA with jammed cartridges in the rifle's chamber. You may have even seen pictures of soldiers with cleaning rods attached to their rifles by boot blousing bands, ready to be used to ram stuck cases out of the chamber. Yes, there were problems. The powder which the cartridge had been designed around was not the powder the government initial used in the ammo, causing extensive fouling. The rifle had also been fielded without training the operators how to properly clean and maintain the rifle and without proper cleaning equipment in the supply system.

Bottom line is that kept well-lubed and reasonably clean. the AR is a shooting machine. That brings us to some user's phobia about cleaning the rifle. First and foremost, many believe, and rightfully so IMO, that the military shortens the service life of many weapons by over-cleaning.

This, coupled with the claims that the direct impingement system is inherently unreliable, led one well-known trainer. Pat Rogers, to take one of his loaner rifles, number 14, later known as Filthy 14 and begin a test wherein the students who used the rifle did not clean it, rather just lubed it and continued shooting.

This test lasted well over 30,000 rounds proving that if well-lubed the AR/DI system will run reliably even while subject to the abuse of not cleaning. This was a fairly well-publicized undertaking (link below) and some, hell many, AR users took it to mean that no cleaning was required, bless their hearts.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/content/...vo_swat_10.pdf

I think that if you shoot your rifle say, a couple hundred rounds once a quarter, you probably ought to clean it about once a quarter. If you shoot once a year, you ought to vlean it once a year. If you shoot once a week, maybe take a look at things and clean, about every five hundred to thousand rounds or so.

You do you for cleaning, but there is really no need to 'inspection clean' an AR every time it is used.

[Wake27]

Re: your statement about not being well-versed in the AR and kind of explaining what others have posted about not cleaning theirs:

Not that long ago there were many who criticized the AR's direct-impingement operating system as being too dirty for reliable function. One common phrase was 'it shits where it eats' in reference to the gases released into the upper receiver as the bolt carrier group cycles, from both the carrier and the gas tube.

People also referenced the problems with the M16's in VN, pointing out that there were reportedly stories of soldiers/Marines being found KIA with jammed cartridges in the rifle's chamber. You may have even seen pictures of soldiers with cleaning rods attached to their rifles by boot blousing bands, ready to be used to ram stuck cases out of the chamber. Yes, there were problems. The powder which the cartridge had been designed around was not the powder the government initial used in the ammo, causing extensive fouling. The rifle had also been fielded without training the operators how to properly clean and maintain the rifle and without proper cleaning equipment in the supply system.

Bottom line is that kept well-lubed and reasonably clean. the AR is a shooting machine. That brings us to some user's phobia about cleaning the rifle. First and foremost, many believe, and rightfully so IMO, that the military shortens the service life of many weapons by over-cleaning.

This, coupled with the claims that the direct impingement system is inherently unreliable, led one well-known trainer. Pat Rogers, to take one of his loaner rifles, number 14, later known as Filthy 14 and begin a test wherein the students who used the rifle did not clean it, rather just lubed it and continued shooting.

This test lasted well over 30,000 rounds proving that if well-lubed the AR/DI system will run reliably even while subject to the abuse of not cleaning. This was a fairly well-publicized undertaking (link below) and some, hell many, AR users took it to mean that no cleaning was required, bless their hearts.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/content/...vo_swat_10.pdf

I think that if you shoot your rifle say, a couple hundred rounds once a quarter, you probably ought to clean it about once a quarter. If you shoot once a year, you ought to vlean it once a year. If you shoot once a week, maybe take a look at things and clean, about every five hundred to thousand rounds or so.

You do you for cleaning, but there is really no need to 'inspection clean' an AR every time it is used.

Fully agree, with one exception - it’s a proven rifle. BCM has a great reputation and Filthy 14 was obviously built correctly. It’s a bit ironic that SOTAR was brought up because he has a few videos of BRO ARs that failed pretty miserably.

Either way, the firing pin retaining pin may be the single cheapest component of an AR. I don’t keep many things stock on mine but if one was giving me that much trouble, I’d spend the dollar and change to get a new one. I’d never even heard of the KNS version but since that’s closer to $10 and has reviews on both PA and OP that it breaks, I’d rather spend less money and get several mil-spec ones since it’s always good to have spare BCG parts on hand.

[JimLob65]

Re: your statement about not being well-versed in the AR and kind of explaining what others have posted about not cleaning theirs:

Not that long ago there were many who criticized the AR's direct-impingement operating system as being too dirty for reliable function. One common phrase was 'it shits where it eats' in reference to the gases released into the upper receiver as the bolt carrier group cycles, from both the carrier and the gas tube.

People also referenced the problems with the M16's in VN, pointing out that there were reportedly stories of soldiers/Marines being found KIA with jammed cartridges in the rifle's chamber. You may have even seen pictures of soldiers with cleaning rods attached to their rifles by boot blousing bands, ready to be used to ram stuck cases out of the chamber. Yes, there were problems. The powder which the cartridge had been designed around was not the powder the government initial used in the ammo, causing extensive fouling. The rifle had also been fielded without training the operators how to properly clean and maintain the rifle and without proper cleaning equipment in the supply system.

Bottom line is that kept well-lubed and reasonably clean. the AR is a shooting machine. That brings us to some user's phobia about cleaning the rifle. First and foremost, many believe, and rightfully so IMO, that the military shortens the service life of many weapons by over-cleaning.

This, coupled with the claims that the direct impingement system is inherently unreliable, led one well-known trainer. Pat Rogers, to take one of his loaner rifles, number 14, later known as Filthy 14 and begin a test wherein the students who used the rifle did not clean it, rather just lubed it and continued shooting.

This test lasted well over 30,000 rounds proving that if well-lubed the AR/DI system will run reliably even while subject to the abuse of not cleaning. This was a fairly well-publicized undertaking (link below) and some, hell many, AR users took it to mean that no cleaning was required, bless their hearts.

https://bravocompanyusa.com/content/...vo_swat_10.pdf

I think that if you shoot your rifle say, a couple hundred rounds once a quarter, you probably ought to clean it about once a quarter. If you shoot once a year, you ought to vlean it once a year. If you shoot once a week, maybe take a look at things and clean, about every five hundred to thousand rounds or so.

You do you for cleaning, but there is really no need to 'inspection clean' an AR every time it is used.

Well…let’s try this again. Isn’t it fun when you get almost done with a lengthy reply and your phone wigs out??

Thanks for your informative reply. It is much appreciated. Yes, I was familiar with the issues caused by a change in powder in the earliest M16s. IIRC it was a change to a ball type powder from a cleaner burning flake type. A similar change in ammo in the 1930s caused all kinds of issues with the earlier ‘gas trap’ M1 Garands, of which I am much better informed. Seems we never learn from history!

I may very well be guilty of over cleaning my guns. There’s lots of money there!! In this case I had just brought it home from Cabela’s and needed to do the initial cleaning and lube. Besides I am going to have to be able to tear down and clean these things at some point in the future. Hopefully what I have learned will help me out going forward.

I have seen many more examples personally of guns that have been neglected causing issues, however, particularly in .22s. I have been working on a J.C.Higgins .22 that I bought for a song and dance that is just such an example. First trip to the range with that one today! Not sure it had ever been cleaned and the feed mechanism and action worked accordingly. Another example is an old Remington 742 Woodsmaster my Dad bought used many many years ago in which the receiver was worn out, probably from a lack of lubrication, causing the bolt to jam up. Ruined the rifle. To your point though improper/overcleaning most likely ruined the barrel on my very first Garand, an updated gas trap low serial numbered gun in which the muzzle end of the barrel looked like an old sewer pipe. It wouldn’t even shoot a pattern!! I had bought it like that though. Gotta find the balance I guess….

[cosermann]

I've never found it problematic. I'm kind of surprised to read this.

This was my first thought. If there’s difficulty putting the pin back in, something is wrong.

[JimLob65]

This was my first thought. If there’s difficulty putting the pin back in, something is wrong.

Considering that I have fought with this damn pin in 4 different BCGs in my 3 different ARs I feel comfortable with the conclusion that the problem is……ME!

[cosermann]

The technique in the video in post #3 not working?

[Clusterfrack]

Either way, the firing pin retaining pin may be the single cheapest component of an AR. I don’t keep many things stock on mine but if one was giving me that much trouble, I’d spend the dollar and change to get a new one. I’d never even heard of the KNS version but since that’s closer to $10 and has reviews on both PA and OP that it breaks, I’d rather spend less money and get several mil-spec ones since it’s always good to have spare BCG parts on hand.

CZ Custom’s solid FP retaining pin sounded like a good idea to replace the roll pin in the CZ75. But the springy steel roll pin damps impact. The solid steel pins broke and caused peening.

Mucking with the original design can have consequences.

[Rick R]

I've never found it problematic. I'm kind of surprised to read this.

I’ve seen more than one pin with one leg bent in a curve to match the interior of the bolt carrier. “You guys clean your guns and then you’re dismissed” seemed to bring out the gorilla in some guys. But I am convinced that if we issued anvils and rubber mallets we’d have occasionally replaced an anvil.

[JimLob65]

The technique in the video in post #3 not working?

I haven't needed to try it because I managed to get it installed before I started this threadm

[blues]

A nice, simple, direct, five minute demonstration of how easy it should be...