First Post, USP .45 vs Glock 20 Gen 5

[consumer_ignorance]

Hi all,

I’ve lurked here for a while, but this is my first official post! So hello!

I’ve been reading various posts and threads on here, and I’ve narrowed my decision down to these two guns. I’m looking for a field pistol for outdoor use in the lower 48. I live in Utah. I’ve heard VERY mixed reviews of the Glocks with heavy 10mm loads, but it seems like the Gen 5 *may* have worked some of the bugs out. I’ve heard very good things about the USP .45, even with .45 Super.

So I guess here’s my stakes with it: I don’t have a huge budget to vet and massage the pistol, so reliability is paramount. The Glock has a few advantages: namely, 3 more rounds, arguably better penetration, price, and holster availability. The USP has a safety, practice ammo is less expensive, more available, and I have some stocked up anyway, it’s more reliable (probably?), and the .45 Super is a little more powerful with a wider diameter.

If you were me, where would you go with this decision?

Thanks for all the reading so far, and I’m happy to be here!

[Clusterfrack]

Welcome to Pistol-Forum! Both are good, reasonable solutions. We have figured out how to make a 10mm Glock reliable with decently powerful loads. A G20 can take a red dot, and has a very wide range of holster options. The USP 45 is a big gun, and folks with smaller hands may have trouble reaching the trigger in DA mode. I do for sure, and that's one reason I went with a G20 even though I am a big fan of DA/SA guns.

I have to run to an appointment, so I'll let some of our other very experienced members comment.

Paging @GJM...

[consumer_ignorance]

Welcome to Pistol-Forum! Both are good, reasonable solutions. We have figured out how to make a 10mm Glock reliable with decently powerful loads. A G20 can take a red dot, and has a very wide range of holster options. The USP 45 is a big gun, and folks with smaller hands may have trouble reaching the trigger in DA mode. I do for sure, and that's one reason I went with a G20 even though I am a big fan of DA/SA guns.

I have to run to an appointment, so I'll let some of our other very experienced members comment.

Paging @GJM...

Thank you for the quick reply!

You two were the two I was hoping to hear from, ha. Your comments have been invaluable reading for me!

I have XL size hands, so the size isn’t too much of a concern. The red dot and holster availability on the Glock is a strong advantage for sure (although a red dot would be off the table for a while either way, just based on budget). Thank you, sir!

[john c]

Though I went the other way and have a USP, I second Clusterfrack. If your budget is that tight, definitely go with the G20Gen5. The price of holsters, etc are so much cheaper, plus the gen 5 is only available in MOS, so when you do scrape up the pennies, you can red dot it easier. Also, with a modern rail system, you can easily mount a light on it, if needed for your use case.

I've never owned a G20, but the ones I've seen have worked fine with factory 10mm ammo. I think they started choking on boutique, super high end stuff. Is using this stuff realistic for you on a tight budget at $2/round? Also, if you're in Utah, what will you encounter that you'll need Buffalo Bore maximum pressure 10mm? Moose, possibly? They have several levels of 10mm ammo; you could pick one of their "medium" rounds and be fine.

Finally, in previous generations (1 through 4) there are .40 drop in barrels for the G20. I'm sure these will shortly be available for the gen 5. This will allow for much cheaper practice that you'll need to get really proficient with the pistol. A drop in barrel at $159 will more than pay for itself since .40 fmj ammo is only 20% more expensive than 9mm.

[Le Français]

Living in Utah (no grizzlies or polar bears) and having a tight budget, perhaps you could consider just feeding your typical carry with gun ammo that penetrates well when you’re in the great outdoors. You’d preserve the familiarity you have with that gun, and save at least five Benjamins. Just a thought from someone who wants a USP45 but can’t really justify the cost.

[Lost River]

Have you considered a Gen 5 Glock 21?

There are some rather potent loads available that will likely do what needs done, as far as semi auto loads. Plus I don't think many (most) know this, if you really, really want a 10mm later on, you can simply buy a drop in conversion barrel for your G21. While you can do that with a G21, you cannot go the other way, buying a G21 barrel and dropping it into a G20. That is unless you buy a whole top end.

Back to the Glock 21. Just FYI, I own a Gen 5 G20, Gen 3 G21 and an HK USP 45.

If you have been here for a while and reading, then you are likely aware that I have a small ammo company, so the loads that I refer to are ones that I produce. That should be said for full disclosure.

Anyways, between the 10mm and the .45, my personal favorite has long been the 45 ACP +P 250 grain hard cast Flat Point at 925 FPS. That heavy bullet penetrates deep and straight. It is also easy to shoot well for most people, and I very much like it in the polymer framed guns, such as the G21 and HK USP.





Either with a standard 13 round mag, or a +4 baseplate, you can end up with a pretty decent payload of heavy bullets. I like the 10mm, and carry it, but not nearly as much. In fact I carry my G22 more, due to a specific load that is exceptional in that gun.

Anyways, I would not rule out the Glock 21 .45 ACP in your decision making. Both the HK USP and Glock 20 are fine guns, but the G21 is a gun that simply does not get the attention it deserves due to the general public's lack of knowledge about heavy .45 ACP loads and their terminal ballistics.

[Lost River]

Following up on this.

It is quite rare to hear mixed reviews (from informed reviewers) about full size Glock 21s. They simply run. About the only thing people complain about is frame size, but for a 10mm/45 size frame, it is what it is, and it is an exceptionally reliable gun.

In fact, since the weather has turned cool here in Idaho, I have been carrying my G21 more and more, and am doing so again today. Pretty easy to do during this time of year of course, and I enjoy carrying more formidable weapons during the cooler months.



The last few days have seen me in a routine with the same gear. Yes, that is a box cutter, but I use it frequently during the day.

Funny thing is that aside from the G21, the last three mornings have seen me grabbing my old Pendleton jacket for when I drive the kids to drop them off at school. It has big front pockets and I have taken to sticking a snubby revolver in each side (balances nicely). A 5 shot .38 on one side and a 6 shot .32 on the other. All loaded with wadcutters.



No, I don't normally carry 3 guns. The snubbies have been living in my jacket and they are pretty handy!

[Noah]

As someone also living in a non Grizzly state on a tight budget, the cheap answer is specialty ammunition in my EDC 9mm. But that's no fun!

[TicTacticalTimmy]

A few thoughts on gun choice:

1. An HK45 is about $300 cheaper than a USP. It is a smaller more efficient design. Not as overbuilt as the USP, but I think it is sufficient for outdoor defensive loads.

2. Police trade in G21G4s are very cheap right now.

3. If you really care about being economical, a .40 with the right loads should be very effective against black bear and the biggest cats. All sorts of .40 guns and ammo are very cheap right now.

4. Personally I love the 10mm cartridge and would look into the G20 or maybe the Grand Power P10 over the above options, but will fully admit it might not be the most practical choice for realistic scenarios.

[GlockenSpiel]

Don't want to thread hijack, but are gen 4 Glock 21s good to go, or not as good as the gen 3?