Police Trade 40’s (Dang all this 40 talk at PF)

[SCCY Marshal]

Almost certainly LEM. If I remember correctly, the majority of the true double-action-only guns were shipped with a safety lever.

[Rex G]

I will echo KevH, regarding .40 Glocks before the Gen5. If both .40 and Glock are considered important, go Gen5.

I worked for a PD that started mandating .40 S&W duty pistols, in 1997. “Grandfathered” duty pistols, chambered for the previously-approved cartridges, remained OK’ed, if we maintained a current qual with each grandfathered weapon. Due to the then-mandated duty holster being found to interfere too much with safe use of my preferred .45 ACP duty pistol, I reluctantly transitioned to the Gen3 G22, acquiring a pair of them, in 2002. (We had to buy our own duty firearms; there were four authorized choices.) One of my G22 pistols was a drama queen, with the feeding cycle, until the work-around of stronger-than-stock mag springs was implemented. The problem occurred even WITHOUT a WML mounted on the rail. I later added a third G22, and eventually discovered that it liked warm 165-grain ammo, but not 180-grain ammo. I never diagnosed this problem, because a colleague wanted to buy it, in spite of its finickiness, and I was already moving to SIG, by that point, anyway.

So, two of three .40 Glock G22 pistols being less-than-ready for street usage is not “Perfection.” Not a disaster, but enough to keep me favoring 9mm for my Glocks.

I heard and read reports of other G22 issues, now largely forgotten, since I transitioned to a SIG P229R DAK in 2004, as soon as I learned about the optional slimmer trigger, with a shorter reach for the index finger to attain a proper placement on the trigger face. The SIG P229 was, it seems, well and truly engineered to stand up to .40 S&W recoil energy. (Nothing against HK; it was simply not a duty pistol choice that was open to me, and I did not want to carry one auto-pistol system while on the clock, and another auto-pistol during personal time.)

I had a personal reason to transition away from .40 S&W. By age 50, in 2011, my right thumb, hand, and wrist did not like shooting .40, anymore, from an aluminum alloy-framed, high-bore-axis P229. Thus began my search for an alternative. Everything I learned about the S&W M&P40 seemed favorable. The S&W M&P40 was one of the authorized duty pistols choices that was open to me. By early 2012, it became an open secret that the command staff was largely in favor of returning to 9mm being an authorized duty pistol choice, so, I did not transition to an unfamiliar weapon. I bought G19 and G17 9mm pistols, in anticipation of transitioning to them, instead, due to prior familiarity, and a lower bore axis than SIG. a rule change in September 2015 enabled the transition.

To be clear, I am not claiming that .40 S&W was the cause of my gimpy right thumb, hand, and wrist. That would most likely be big-bore Magnum rounds, fired in the Eighties, coming home to roost. I have nothing against the .40 S&W, except to question whether it truly offers anything significant, per shot, for street duty, in most foreseeable circumstances, over the 9mm, with modern controlled-expansion ammo. .40 S&W may well have had more of an advantage, over the 9mm, at the time of its introduction, when bullet technology was less mature.

I have no argument with anyone who likes .40 S&W. I might well still like it, had I not wrecked my hands firing big-bore Magnum N-Frames, in my twenties, with my K-/L-Frame-sized hands.

[TheNewbie]

@Rex G

What were your .40 S&W weapon choices?


G22, P229?

[UniSol]

I bought a USP40 full size for one reason - it was the heralded famous 'Rainbow Six' pistol that was on the cover of the video game and countless other Rainbow Six IP spinoffs. Because I'm a nerd.

Then I took the damn thing out to the range and I was astounded at how it was every bit the 'laser' as my USP45 full size but flatter shooting and easier to manage and easier to conceal.


Starting from square zero and wanting a .40 S&W - I'd get a USP, no question, and I deeply regret passing on the chance to buy a USPc 40 for $400 when HK prices were somewhat depressed in that range. I still think the USP40 is the best used HK pistol on the market, and I'd climb over a pile of brand new P2000's in .40 to get to a beat up PD used USP40.

For a while my only gun was a police trade-in USP .40 V1. I was away from home for 6 months at an Army school in Texas that was long enough to qualify for PCS, but obviously not long enough to warrant actually moving (it was title 10 via the National Guard too so not like it was en route to a new duty station, I was just going back home at the end of the set of orders). I left all my guns at home. Around the halfway mark of the course, I bought the USP using my orders for state residency, and then toted it with me to El Paso for a long visit with family before heading back home.

I liked the simplicity of the one-gun life. I wish I had kept that unit. It was also my open carry piece when I worked at a gun store part time not long after. I'm about to talk myself into throwing down on the USP .40 on gunbroker that was linked on the last page.

[Rex G]

@Rex G

What were your .40 S&W weapon choices?


G22, P229?

The .40 primary duty pistol choices shifted, over time. The first group of three, in 1997, were the P229, the Beretta 8040, and a Third-Gen de-cock-only pistol with a single-column mag, exact model number disremembered, by now. Eventually, a double-column-mag Third Gen S&W either joined or replaced the single-column mag pistol. Eventually, as production ceased, the Third-Gen decocker S&W pistols were replaced, on the list, by the S&W M&P40, but those Third-Gen pistols remained grandfathered.

Eventually, a decock-only variant of the Beretta Model 96 (96G?) replaced the Beretta 8040. Eventually, all Berettas disappeared from the list of approved primary duty pistols, but nobody had to transition, as existing pistols were grandfathered.

When a Glock was finally added to the list of approved primary duty pistols, which increased the number of OK’ed brands to four, it was the G22. Later, the G23 was added.

For a brief time, a Springfield XD model was OK’ed, but some issue with a roll pin caused it to be removed from the list.

I cannot recall whether the .40 polymer frame “self-firing” SIG was ever OK’ed, though the 9mm version became OK’ed in late 2015/2016/2017. The 9mm “self-firing” SIG actually became the required duty pistol for all cadets, for a brief time, until the “self-firing” scandal broke, which caused the 9mm G17 to become the new standard duty pistol for all cadets.

Somewhere along the way, .45 ACP resumed being an authorized duty pistol cartridge, in some SIGs and Glocks, about 2012, and finally, the 1911 made its comeback, with an announcement in time for Christmas 2015, and transition classes starting in early 2016.

I stopped paying much attention to the changes in approved duty pistols, after I was able to start using 9mm Glocks in late 2015, and then to resume being able to qual with my .45 ACP 1911 duty pistols, for on-the-clock usage, in 2016. That was the twilight of my career, when improving my evidentiary/forensic/crime scene photography skills became much more interesting than keeping up with the latest, greatest pistols.

This was Houston PD, in Texas; my employer from November 1983 to January 2018, with my sworn date being in March 1984. The Eighties, especially, were sometimes a wild ride. When most of the USA was in recession, Houston remained an oil business boom town, until the boom finally went bust.

Edited to add: Most of my posts are now in the Revolvers section of P-F. In those wild Eighties, I used mostly revolvers when I went out to look for trouble, so, I made a diligent effort to learn long-stroke DA. I had started handgunning with a 1911, at age 21, but by age 22 had to REALLY learn the revolving-pistol business, and build a foundation that continues to exist. When I transitioned to the P229, in 2004, I chose the DAK version, with a trigger stroke not unlike that of an S&W K-Frame.

[deputyG23]

Conversion barrel for 9mm?

I have a Lone Wolf conversion .40 to 9mm barrel for my G4 G22 which runs like a top.
Hardly use it now since I have my G5 G17 old issued gun.