Police Trade 40’s (Dang all this 40 talk at PF)

[Virtuosity Student]

All of this 40 talk lately has me wanting to go down this rabbit hole. Especially GJM’s G23.5. I have yet to find any police trades on Gen5’s and due to the resurgence of 9mm police adoption, it’s highly unlikely I will anytime soon. However, M&P 2.0’s pop up around $350 and I have seen G22.4’s and G23.4’s going for under $300. Hell even HK has a deal on the P2000 in 40 at $500 with $200 worth of extra mags. At this point I am willing to pay prices commensurate with Ruger and Taurus to scratch this itch.

This would be a fun gun, woods gun, and maybe see some EDC. I know that the M&P was designed to handle 40 from the ground up and as such I feel it would have no issue handling the extra toll 40 would add. However, IIRC the Gen 4 Glocks went to the dual recoil spring to address their inherent issues. My gut says M&P 2.0 since I already have a 2.0 9 compact and holsters would be the same. It’s not that big of a difference, $60, but the Glock with 4 mags and night sights under $300 is really hard to say no to.

Thoughts?

P.S. I know that conventional wisdom says just buy more 9mm but since when has P-F been about not causing irrational spending.

[KevH]

All of this 40 talk lately has me wanting to go down this rabbit hole. Especially GJM’s G23.5. I have yet to find any police trades on Gen5’s and due to the resurgence of 9mm police adoption, it’s highly unlikely I will anytime soon. However, M&P 2.0’s pop up around $350 and I have seen G22.4’s and G23.4’s going for under $300. Hell even HK has a deal on the P2000 in 40 at $500 with $200 worth of extra mags. At this point I am willing to pay prices commensurate with Ruger and Taurus to scratch this itch.

This would be a fun gun, woods gun, and maybe see some EDC. I know that the M&P was designed to handle 40 from the ground up and as such I feel it would have no issue handling the extra toll 40 would add. However, IIRC the Gen 4 Glocks went to the dual recoil spring to address their inherent issues. My gut says M&P 2.0 since I already have a 2.0 9 compact and holsters would be the same. It’s not that big of a difference, $60, but the Glock with 4 mags and night sights under $300 is really hard to say no to.

Thoughts?

P.S. I know that conventional wisdom says just buy more 9mm but since when has P-F been about not causing irrational spending.

If you want a 40 S&W buy a S&W M&P. The M&P 2.0 would be my preference. The H&K USP 40c or USP 40 would be runner up, with SIG's behind.

Stay away from 40 S&W Glocks in Gen2, Gen3, or Gen4 flavors. The Gen4 changes only helped them along a smidge. The Glock needs a heavier slide to handle 40 S&W, which it didn't get until Gen5 (after most departments abandoned 40 S&W).

[PNWTO]

When it comes to autoloaders, I’m a Glock fanboy.

That said, my buddy’s agency recently swapped all their 1st Gen M&P .40s to the 2.0s and both examples of his that I shot were stellar. And these are very much “working” guns; he’s not a gun guy, I’m talking old Copenhagen dust in the slide and general duty neglect. But still great shooters.

[gruntjim]

If you want a 40 S&W buy a S&W M&P. The M&P 2.0 would be my preference. The H&K USP 40c or USP 40 would be runner up, with SIG's behind.

Stay away from 40 S&W Glocks in Gen2, Gen3, or Gen4 flavors. The Gen4 changes only helped them along a smidge. The Glock needs a heavier slide to handle 40 S&W, which it didn't get until Gen5 (after most departments abandoned 40 S&W).

I have both, both being a 2.0 four-inch, and a 23.5.

I couldn't tell you which I like better, but if I have my wife in tow, I usually carry the Smith, because she can wield the Smith quite well. Glocks are simply a non-starter for her.

Neither piece has anything close to an ammo preference.

As to recoil, the Smith 2.0 recoils a lot like a Gen 3 Glock 9mm. The 23.5 has a bit more subjective recoil, but that could easily be hand fit.

[jnc36rcpd]

I'd endorse the M&P40. I haven't touch an HK since I attended classes at the HK International Training Division, but their weapons were solid.

I agree that SigSauer would be in third place or perhaps farther back. We had .40 226's and 239's in service for several years with minimal issues. Then, during an annual armorer's inspection, we discovered multiple cracked frames, usually under the grips. This resulted in immediate authorizations for officers who had purchased their 9mm pistols to carry those and for some officers trading guns at shift change. We never determined with certainty the cause of the failures. I would guess probably the age of the guns, but that is a guess.

[AMC]

I'd endorse the M&P40. I haven't touch an HK since I attended classes at the HK International Training Division, but their weapons were solid.

I agree that SigSauer would be in third place or perhaps farther back. We had .40 226's and 239's in service for several years with minimal issues. Then, during an annual armorer's inspection, we discovered multiple cracked frames, usually under the grips. This resulted in immediate authorizations for officers who had purchased their 9mm pistols to carry those and for some officers trading guns at shift change. We never determined with certainty the cause of the failures. I would guess probably the age of the guns, but that is a guess.

I've posted about this in other threads, but our department (2000+ sworn at the time) experienced the same thing with some of our 226 .40s. All under the grips, at the back of the frame just below the grip tang. We (and the SIG engineers who we spoke to at that time....who will NOT go on the record and admit this now) eventually worked out this problem was isolated to guns with frames modified for the DAK trigger system, which required extra space for the trigger bar. All of our cracked frames were in guns with those frames....the earlier ones never exhibited this problem. SIG eventually went back to the original frame design some time after they discontinued the DAK trigger option.

Spoke to one of my former staff a few months ago. They've since cracked over 100 more frames since I left....but they have not replaced anything. There are no plans to replace the guns either. That effort ended shortly after I left, and my replacement was critically injured in a freak accident. Now.....nobody cares. Attitude is "Ah, just give them another one!". Since literally hundreds of officers have left in the last 3 years, they have a surplus of used guns.

So as much as I liked my 226 .40, I'd be very careful of the vintage of gun that I got.

[HCM]

I've posted about this in other threads, but our department (2000+ sworn at the time) experienced the same thing with some of our 226 .40s. All under the grips, at the back of the frame just below the grip tang. We (and the SIG engineers who we spoke to at that time....who will NOT go on the record and admit this now) eventually worked out this problem was isolated to guns with frames modified for the DAK trigger system, which required extra space for the trigger bar. All of our cracked frames were in guns with those frames....the earlier ones never exhibited this problem. SIG eventually went back to the original frame design some time after they discontinued the DAK trigger option.

Spoke to one of my former staff a few months ago. They've since cracked over 100 more frames since I left....but they have not replaced anything. There are no plans to replace the guns either. That effort ended shortly after I left, and my replacement was critically injured in a freak accident. Now.....nobody cares. Attitude is "Ah, just give them another one!". Since literally hundreds of officers have left in the last 3 years, they have a surplus of used guns.

So as much as I liked my 226 .40, I'd be very careful of the vintage of gun that I got.

Officers can’t crack the frame of their pistols if your agency is too short staff to send people to the range to shoot them…..

[Suvorov]

Next week I’ll be turning in the USPc 40 that I’ve carried for almost 15 years for the “latest” in 9mm hotness. It’s been a great pistol through many thousands of rounds and honestly if I could continue to carry it, I probably would. It’s my only 40 and soon I will have a bunch of 40 with nothing to shoot it in. Not sure it makes sense to buy a $400 surplus pistol to shoot up my remaining $400 worth of ammo, but I’m always looking…..

If I had the option to buy my USP from Uncle Sugar I’d do it in a heartbeat.

[jnc36rcpd]

I thought SigSauer responded very well to my department's cracked frames. They supplied multiple frames, multiple replacement guns, and provided E2 grips for all our weapons. They were not forthcoming in providing a reason or even a working hypothesis for the issues. Oddly enough, our weapons were all DA/SA.

Like HCM, I really like my 226R that resides in a gun safe. That said, it has definitely passed its self-life as a duty firearm.

[AMC]

Officers can’t crack the frame of their pistols if your agency is too short staff to send people to the range to shoot them…..

You have no idea how true that is. Hundreds of officers out of compliance with the agency mandated twice a year qual, and hundreds out of compliance with the State POST mandated Perishable Skills Program. Everybody just shrugs. Who cares, right? It's only okay....until it's not.

The music is gonna stop one day, but I'm not playing the game anymore. What's amazing to me is that the people involved in that debacle all seem to think someone else is responsible. Who 'they' are is never really explained, though.