Agencies dropping Stacatto?

[KevH]

The one time I would be concerned about a 1911 is when someone else temporarily holds the gun while the 1911 user enters an area where the gun is not allowed. Mas Ayoob once wrote about a police officer who left his 1911 with courtroom staff before entering a courtroom. The courtroom staff did not like the fact that the gun was cocked, and negligently discharged the gun while trying to decock it. The judge lectured the officer about "his" negligence in carrying a cocked gun. That department lost the ability to carry 1911's.

I once had to leave my gun with security at a hospital when making an unexpected trip when my wife had gone to the emergency room. They had me take the gun and holster together, leaving the gun in the holster, and place the gun where it remained until I left. I was glad to be carrying a DAO pistol that day.

Although I do not know who often this is actually done, police officers in Ohio are allowed to take and hold a gun being carried concealed by someone they stop, and must return the gun at the conclusion of the stop. I would prefer a Glock to a 1911 in OH simply because in that situation, the officer taking temporary possession of the gun is more likely to be familiar with the safe operation of Glocks.

This can apply to any gun.

A few years back we watched a baby police trying to figure out how to "make safe" a S&W revolver. He ultimately handed the gun to another officer. This is despite at the time about half the department was carrying a S&W J-frame as a backup gun. We decided at the next in-service to do "familiarization training" with a host of different firearms. It was amazing watching how mesmerized some cops were with the loading and unloading process of the single action revolver, something most of us would take for granted.

I pick to carry the gun that works best for me, my current assignment and/or the task at hand.

[Tokarev]

If someone would make a stronger double stack frame and mags properly sized for 9mm, with a 1911 action, a FP safety (Colt's patent on the S80 FP safety is long expired) that allows for optics mounting, and no grip safety (or a grip module that can easily replace it) probably they would have a lot of customers. Ned's FallArrest[emoji769] hammer or something like that would also furhter improve drop safety.

Sounds like we need to petition Stealth Arms to produce a "patrol grade" Platypus. Add some S80 parts and set the trigger to between 4 and 5 pounds. Either cut the leg off the grip safety or offer that as the only option.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[BillSWPA]

This can apply to any gun.

A few years back we watched a baby police trying to figure out how to "make safe" a S&W revolver. He ultimately handed the gun to another officer. This is despite at the time about half the department was carrying a S&W J-frame as a backup gun. We decided at the next in-service to do "familiarization training" with a host of different firearms. It was amazing watching how mesmerized some cops were with the loading and unloading process of the single action revolver, something most of us would take for granted.

I pick to carry the gun that works best for me, my current assignment and/or the task at hand.

Hopefully trying to make the S&W revolver safe did not involve manipulation of the hammer or trigger?

This does sort of support my point. Not everyone is gun-savvy, and a visibly cocked hammer might invite someone to try to address a perceived safety issue while a lowered or concealed hammer or striker (even if fully cocked) might not prompt the same response.

Glad your department did the familiarization.

Perhaps when handing a 1911 to someone else, a quick conversation might be a good idea?

[John Hearne]

We decided at the next in-service to do "familiarization training" with a host of different firearms.

One of the blocks at FLETC Firearms Instructors included different guns and a block on how to safely lower the hammer on a cocked revolver.

[KevH]

One of the blocks at FLETC Firearms Instructors included different guns and a block on how to safely lower the hammer on a cocked revolver.

I think those of us that grew up with guns take it for granted that other people don't know how to operate different types, especially the ones that were around all the time when we were kids.

It sort of peeves me that most police academies these days spend exactly zero time on the revolver, especially when they're so prevalent in the actual real world. I'm glad to hear for all its faults that FLETC is doing that, because 99% of the California POST academies do not.

[HCM]

One of the blocks at FLETC Firearms Instructors included different guns and a block on how to safely lower the hammer on a cocked revolver.

That is, or at least was, part of our basic Academy.

We also used to have a 2 hour block which included a 50 round revolver fan fire but I think that’s been eliminated since revolvers are completely out of service.

[HCM]

The one time I would be concerned about a 1911 is when someone else temporarily holds the gun while the 1911 user enters an area where the gun is not allowed. Mas Ayoob once wrote about a police officer who left his 1911 with courtroom staff before entering a courtroom. The courtroom staff did not like the fact that the gun was cocked, and negligently discharged the gun while trying to decock it. The judge lectured the officer about "his" negligence in carrying a cocked gun. That department lost the ability to carry 1911's.

I once had to leave my gun with security at a hospital when making an unexpected trip when my wife had gone to the emergency room. They had me take the gun and holster together, leaving the gun in the holster, and place the gun where it remained until I left. I was glad to be carrying a DAO pistol that day.

Although I do not know who often this is actually done, police officers in Ohio are allowed to take and hold a gun being carried concealed by someone they stop, and must return the gun at the conclusion of the stop. I would prefer a Glock to a 1911 in OH simply because in that situation, the officer taking temporary possession of the gun is more likely to be familiar with the safe operation of Glocks.

In a court setting (or any other setting where the need to secure guns is predictable) this is the fault of the court staff and the judge for not having lock boxes.

User locks it up and takes the key.

[BillSWPA]

In a court setting (or any other setting where the need to secure guns is predictable) this is the fault of the court staff and the judge for not having lock boxes.

User locks it up and takes the key.

Definitely the court staff's fault. If they didn't know, they should have asked.

[Poconnor]

Perchance is Hornady ammo at the center of that concern?

I have a client who is issued 135 grain Hornady Critical Duty and he's had the need to dispatch a lot of deer with it and has found that the bullets routinely over-penetrate.

Do you have any details of the deer shootings? I was issued a Colt 1911 Government model with federal 45D 230 gr JHP. I shot dozens of injured whitetail deer over my twenty years. The 45 ACP usually went through and through with a lung shot. The distance was usually very close. Often just six feet. I never considered this performance to be over penetration.
But the proper amount of penetration of ammunition in law enforcement and self defense is another topic. Personally I always favored more penetration than less

[Chuck Whitlock]

One of the blocks at FLETC Firearms Instructors included different guns and a block on how to safely lower the hammer on a cocked revolver.

When I attended FITP at FLETC Artesia, we spent approximately 2-4 hours of one day with 686's, to include range time. I was surprised at how many of the students had zero experience with revolvers.