Decline of the 40 S&W

[revchuck38]

^^^^That assumes there are benefits to the .30 Super Carry.

[feudist]

Try to imagine a cartridge that combines most of the benefits of both the .40 S&W and .30 Super Carry.

Attachment 111630

Scarce, loud, expensive and hard recoiling?

[Borderland]

If the military doesn't use it, it's a hand loader cartridge.

Unless of course you don't mind paying 50% more for ammo that basically does the same thing.

[KevH]

I've read many times that the .40 has similar recoil to the 9mm if you use high performance 9mm.
Personally I never found that to be the case.
I repeatedly tested Glocks shooting .40 180s@950-ish vs Winchester SXT 127+P+ and the .40 was always markedly harder to control by every metric: draw to first hit, splits, group size. Shooter fatigue was greatly increased as was hand sting.

There in lies your problem.

The 40 S&W sucks in all Glock pistols prior to the Gen5 (I have yet to shoot Gen5 40 S&W Glock and doubt I will because I doubt anyone around here will buy one).

Glock+40 S&W made me hate the caliber. Classic SIGs in 40 S&W I was more or less ambivalent about. Less snap/sting than in the Glock, but the 9mm version of the same gun had noticeably less recoil.

Then I was issued a S&W M&P 40 and it completely changed my perception of the round. Everything about that combo just felt right.

[Horseman]

I'm not sad to see the .40 decline in popularity in Glocks.

In an agency setting, the .40-cal. Glocks were 7.5 pounds of crap in a 5-pound bag, in terms of recoil, durability, and shooter training issues. And the ammo was more expensive.

Some of the later "clean-sheet" pistols in the caliber, produced by other companies, were more shootable.

[358156hp]

I've read many times that the .40 has similar recoil to the 9mm if you use high performance 9mm.
Personally I never found that to be the case.
I repeatedly tested Glocks shooting .40 180s@950-ish vs Winchester SXT 127+P+ and the .40 was always markedly harder to control by every metric: draw to first hit, splits, group size. Shooter fatigue was greatly increased as was hand sting.

Funny you should mention this. I have a lot of 40 brass, reportedly from a police firing range. The majority of the Winchester cases have not been reloadable. I tumbled them, bulge busted them, sized them then wet tumbled them and many have extractor damage and the case heads are battered. All of this on their first firing, some Glock, but many appeared to be from the days of the third gen. S&Ws. I checked them with my shell holder and they won't fit in it. The base of these cases are seemingly bulged as well.

No biggie. I got extras.

[revchuck38]

Funny you should mention this. I have a lot of 40 brass, reportedly from a police firing range. The majority of the Winchester cases have not been reloadable. I tumbled them, bulge busted them, sized them then wet tumbled them and many have extractor damage and the case heads are battered. All of this on their first firing, some Glock, but many appeared to be from the days of the third gen. S&Ws. I checked them with my shell holder and they won't fit in it. The base of these cases are seemingly bulged as well.

No biggie. I got extras.

I've got a bunch of Winchester .40 brass and haven't had a problem reloading it. Mine is what I've picked up from a public range, so it could be that it's lower-pressure white box brass rather than max-pressure defensive stuff. I haven't had any problems with brass from the defensive ammo I've shot, almost all of it is Federal 180-grain, both white box and HST.

[Tensaw]

Huh,... My first round out of any centerfire semi-auto was through a G22. That's what my agency issued, so that's what I learned on. First centerfire semi I ever purchased was a G23C. The.40 never bothered me - perhaps because I had nothing to compare to and thus did not know any better. I still keep a .40 around in the form of a G35 (for a woods pistol), albeit with a KKM 9mm conversion which runs great.

I keep thinking that a Gen5 G27 with a KKM comp (perhaps), would be a great, reliable pistol. And then throw a 9mm barrel in it when you want a G26.

[CSW]

I've got a bunch of Winchester .40 brass and haven't had a problem reloading it. Mine is what I've picked up from a public range, so it could be that it's lower-pressure white box brass rather than max-pressure defensive stuff. I haven't had any problems with brass from the defensive ammo I've shot, almost all of it is Federal 180-grain, both white box and HST.

I'm probably sitting on 2000 empties myself, from my stint with the 40.

[Hambo]

We never approved .40 for duty use, and I can't think of another department in the area that did. Highway Patrol got them, and had all the problems that went along with them. Deputies carried .45s. Using 9BPLE, Win 127gr +P+, and some form of XTPs, we didn't have any failures that could be blamed on 9mm in general or a specific bullet/load. I tried a 27 for off duty, and didn't keep it long.

My LGS contacts say that there are two groups who still favor the .40. First is retired cops who have the pistol they retired with 25 years ago and who shoot LEOSA qual and not much else. The other group wants a .40 Glock with a stendo cuz it's better than 9.

Forty started because the only solution at the time was to drive bullets faster. Bullet design hasn't just evolved, it's completely new. Hunters use 6.5 CM and .308 on animals for which them would have chosen 7mm Rem Mag, or .300 and .338 WM thirty years ago. 7mm Rem Mag ammo is as hard to find as .40, and for good reason. Well designed, bonded bullets changed the entire game.

The good news for those who love .40 is that I won't be trying to horn in on your share of the ammo.