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Thread: Please help a computer idiot transition

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Especially if the thread has very simple set up instructions... There was a thread recently (like within the past 6 months) discussing Mint but I never got past the verification thing because I didn't know WTH I was looking for or supposed to enter.

    So the reason I'm looking at replacing this desktop is it's getting really slow and I think the video card is starting to go (display randomly cuts out but the monitor is fine). If switching to Linux and expanding the memory fixes the speed problem, I'd be willing to replace the video card and drive on.
    How does this sound to both you and @Dov? I have a ~10-12yr old Dell Optiplex sitting around collecting dust. I could do a step by step, in simple terms, walking through the process of installing Linux Mint, issues to look out for, etc. Then we can go from there, and I'm sure some others will chime in with other advice to that end. If so desired, we can also expand on that and I could walk through how I would go about upgrading components in an old machine to keep performance at a respectable level. I need about 1 week before I can start in on that, as I have some things to take care of.

    I'm currently posting this from a 14y/o Dell XPS desktop that runs perfectly fine and is plenty fast for everyday internet, spreadsheet, word doc, etc type stuff most of us do. I have newer, faster, machines but, this is the daily beater because it just keeps working so why replace it. For regular everyday usage like this, the performance issues people often run into are usually found in at least one of two areas:

    • OS / software bloat
    • Dying hardware: hard drive, ram, video card


    On the software front, with each passing year, most software companies add more and more "telemetry" and privacy-invasive features. Often marketed as convenience features. The end result is, as you install more programs, if you're not staying on top of controlling what runs on startup, what runs in the background, etc. you might have tons of stuff running even though you might rarely use most of it.

    On the hardware front, while it can sometimes be difficult to diagnose issues, physically replacing a hard drive, ram, or video card isn't that hard and anyone can learn. Usually a few screws, cables, and you're done. The difficulty is in ensuring you install the right drivers, or getting a new hard drive formatted and ready to use. If replacing a boot drive that has your operating system, that can get a little more tricky, however there are options. For example, there are some programs you can use to easily clone your boot drive. They don't always work perfect but, there are options and some of them have a fairly low barrier to entry in terms of tech skills.

    In terms of hardware, I still tell people that ~5-10y/o Dell XPS, Optiplex, or Precision series desktops are some of the best bargains. You can usually find many of those anywhere from ~$80-500+. They're plentiful on eBay, and used or refurbished from some respectable retailers (Newegg, Discount Electronics). Everyone thinks they need a new PC every other year, so those that are even a few years old end up being pennies on the dollar from their original prices. Dell also does a pretty solid job with a lot of their hardware, cases, spare parts availability, etc. Combine a good buy of an older machine plus a bit of hardware (max out ram, fast SSD hard drive, better video card, etc) from Newegg or careful eBay purchases from tech salvage companies, and you can end up with a decent "daily driver" for a few hundred bucks that'll last you another decade, or at least until SkyNET takes over.
    Administrator for PatRogers.org

  2. #22
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    @Sig_Fiend, that would be very much appreciated!

    I’ve fiddled and futzed with replacing cards in other computers but that was when I had someone in the same building (usually the same room) to walk me through the options, drivers and such but that’s been over 10 years ago.

    What should I look for in terms of software bloat on this machine? Also, is it possible to do a Linux install without getting rid of Windows in case the install goes sideways or something?
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by whomever View Post
    Not an expert, but generally speaking I'll fix up old cars but not old computers. If you fix the video card, then the hard drive will crash, etc, etc. A 20 year old F-150 will still do a good job of bringing plywood home from the lumberyard, while a 20 year old computer is ... junk.

    My current desktop was purchased as a ??3 year old?? corporate castoff, as mentioned upthread. Lots of companies routinely discard high end PCs when the warranty ends, and they can be bargains. Or a new Pi or Chromebook or whatever. Then use it as long as possible, then replace.

    My 2 cents, YMMV!
    Somewhat agree, lot of it depends on how hard machine is used, what it is used for, and how good/bad your location is for electronics. Like if you have cats, kids, etc that can kill computer really fast in several ways. Hair, dust etc can impact cooling ability if not cleaned regularly for example.

    Most of my electronics last decades, part of the reason I'm trying to become competent with Linux is usually OS is EOL before my hardware actually fails.

    But usually gaming is most demanding thing I do on computers, everything else is reading/writing text, looking data up, web research, and so on.

    I think most people on PF can handle replacing hardware components on type of used enterprise desktops you and I would recommend.

  4. #24
    Honestly if you can field strip your guns, I don't think you would struggle with hardware side of replacing or upgrading hardware on enterprise type desktop.

    Enterprise machines are made to be easy to work on, kind of like military firearms.

    Now working on hardware of many laptops or even worse tablets and smartphones is more like detail stripping a finicky gun. It will require more expertise and specific tools.

    Some laptops aren't bad like Thinkpads at least up to certain generations. Basically if laptop is thick and chunky looking it will probably be fairly easy to work on, the sleeker newer designs that look more like Macbook physically will be more of a PITA.

  5. #25
    Here is decent video on one type of used Enterprise computer I'd suggest, I have one very similar to this I added a NVIDA GTX 1650 GPU to for moderate gaming.

    There are physically bigger or smaller machines you can get but I personally like this size since you can put in half height GPU for moderate gaming & etc.

    Video starts with machine already open, but at about 1:25 part shows taking cover off no tools required. Sort of equivalent to field stripping a Glock.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OouB84X37Zo

  6. #26
    If you don't need a moderate or hardcore GPU for gaming or video editing I really like these smaller form factors.

    I like Raspberry Pi machines but think most non nerd people would probably be better off with something like this, it will be comparable or cheaper than in price to a cheap Chromebook but a lot more powerful and easier to maintain.

    Here is a youtube about one of the tiny form factors from a really good youtuber for learning about computers, he has lots of videos on odd and/or bargin stuff and more.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPX3A7YS-6Q

    I actually like these tiny form factor machines, have to resist buying them when I have no need for one just like I do with J frames.

  7. #27
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Bumping this back up because the need to replace is approaching faster than I'd hoped.

    Looking at one of those refurbed mini desktops mentioned in the video of post 26 and I noticed this in the description:

    This device is easy to upgrade with additional RAM and storage but have little to no expandability.
    What kind of expandability are they talking about?

    According to the product page it has 1x USB-C 3.0, 6x USB-A 3.0, DisplayPort, VGA,HDMI,Built in Wifi 6E + Bluetooth. Is the quoted part just a generic statement that probably shouldn't have been on this product page?
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  8. #28
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Old post. Deleted.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    Bumping this back up because the need to replace is approaching faster than I'd hoped.

    Looking at one of those refurbed mini desktops mentioned in the video of post 26 and I noticed this in the description:



    What kind of expandability are they talking about?

    According to the product page it has 1x USB-C 3.0, 6x USB-A 3.0, DisplayPort, VGA,HDMI,Built in Wifi 6E + Bluetooth. Is the quoted part just a generic statement that probably shouldn't have been on this product page?
    By "expandability", I'm guessing they just mean that, since it's a mini pc, there's not room for a lot of extra stuff in there. Those have 2 memory slots, and can take at least 32gb of ram (2x16gb). Allegedly some have been able to use 2x32gb sticks to bring it to 64gb of ram but, regardless, 32gb of DDR4 will work (not sure on speed off-hand).

    For typical day-to-day most of us need (web, spreadsheets/docs, basic media usage, etc), honestly, a lot of mini pc's like this will work just fine. Usually the real hardware-intensive stuff is in things like video rendering/production, high-end gaming, etc. These HP mini pc's, as well as similar units from Dell and Lenovo, make for great little daily driver systems IMO.

    Also, I apologize @awp_101, I realize I completely dropped the ball and never followed up in this thread on the subject of Linux. The first place I'd probably start is making a "Live boot" USB stick of Linux Mint. This will let you temporarily boot from that USB stick into Linux Mint, which will let you play around with the OS without affecting your existing OS. Here's the basics:

    Making a Linux Mint Live Boot USB Stick

    Linux Mint website

    To keep things simple, I'd recommend going with Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition. Mint offers 3 different desktop environment options. Cinnamon is one of those types of desktop environments, and the smoothest and nicest of the bunch, IMO. To me, it feels very much like modern Windows, just with a ton of added customization features.

    Download the Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition .iso. Choose one of the "Download Mirrors" from the US. Just beware, it's almost 3gb so it may take a bit of time to download.

    Next, with the .iso file you downloaded, follow the instructions to make a live boot USB stick. The instructions will have you download another program called balenaEtcher, which is simply a program that can successfully use that .iso file to "burn" to the USB stick so you can boot with it.

    Lastly, now you can follow the instructions to boot your computer from the USB stick. Pay attention to the blue note box on that instruction page. This can be one of the most annoying things, depending on your computer. You have to figure out which hotkey to press on boot, at the right screen, to bring up a one-time boot menu so you can choose to boot from the USB stick.
    As that note mentions on the instruction page, it's probably one of these keys on one of the splash screens during boot, before you reach the Windows splash screen: Escape, F1, F2, F8, F10, F11, F12, Delete (on all of my Dell machines over the past decade, it's usually been F12 right around the Dell splash screen)

    Once you're booting from the USB, it may take a bit to load due to the slow speed of the USB. Once booted, Linux Mint does run pretty fast, even despite not yet being installed. This live USB comes with quite a few Linux apps already installed on the stick, so you can browse the web, use the LibreOffice suite to work on spreadsheets or word docs, and do a ton of other stuff.
    Things to note. The "start menu" is the Linux Mint (LM) icon on the task bar at the bottom left corner of the screen, just like where the Windows equivalent usually is! The system tray with most of your notifications, WiFi/network connection, volume, etc. is on the bottom right side, again, like Windows. Despite different icons, colors, etc, it's laid out quite a bit like Windows.

    Anytime you want to play around with Linux again, you'll just need to hit that hotkey at startup and choose to boot from the USB stick again. If you end up deciding to make the switch, when you're booted into the USB stick there is an icon on the desktop you can select to install Linux to your hard drive.
    This is where things can get tricky, especially if you need to preserve files on your hard drive, or mixed in with your existing OS. There might be better ways but, in my experience, to be absolutely sure you don't inadvertently delete important files, I usually recommend adding a second hard drive and installing Linux to that.
    Then in your BIOS, switch to that Linux drive as your boot drive. That way there's no pressure over losing or needing to deal with moving your existing files, and you can do so at your leisure.

    Lastly, here's a pretty concise video showing the steps above. Ignore that it's using an older version of Linux Mint, and always try to download the latest version. Also, the hotkey to hit during boot may differ for you, depending on the manufacturer of your system.



    I'll stop there for now, as I realize that might be quite a bit for some to play around with. Happy to expand further if anyone needs, as far as doing an actual install of Linux Mint, figuring out your hard drive situation to set you up for success like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, etc.
    Administrator for PatRogers.org

  10. #30
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Re: Linux Mint, highly recommended. I'm a previous corporate Windoze user and don't miss it, at all. As a retiree, Linux Mint does everything I need on a day to day basis, with Libre Office taking care of lite word processing, spreadsheets, or drawing.

    I picked up a pair of Gateway deskside boxes for next to nothing (actually nothing) and had Linux loaded on them in 30 minutes. The specs on these are nothing special, they must be 5-7 years old when I got them last year. I copied some of the system info on them for reference, below:


    System:
    Kernel: 5.15.0-94-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 11.4.0 Desktop: Cinnamon 5.4.12
    tk: GTK 3.24.33 wm: Mutter dm: LightDM Distro: Linux Mint 21 Vanessa base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy
    Machine:
    Type: Desktop System: Gateway product: SX2865 v: N/A serial: <superuser required> Chassis:
    type: 3 serial: <superuser required>
    Mobo: Gateway model: H61H2-AD v: V1.0 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: American Megatrends
    v: P11-A1 date: 09/07/2012
    CPU:
    Info: dual core model: Intel Celeron G540 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Sandy Bridge rev: 7 cache:
    L1: 128 KiB L2: 512 KiB L3: 2 MiB
    Speed (MHz): avg: 1936 high: 1966 min/max: 1600/2500 cores: 1: 1966 2: 1907 bogomips: 9977
    Flags: ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx

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