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Thread: A reminder or a lesson.

  1. #1

    A reminder or a lesson.

    Friends,

    Here is some info for all. It will serve as a reminder for some, and probably new for others, but regardless it is good to touch base on.

    The short version is that I have a Dillon 550 mounted on a portable table that I put in an enclosed trailer to take to the range to do development work. Recently I got busy and completely forgot to bring it inside at the end of the day. The weather recently had changed, with freezing temps at night/early morning and mid 40s during the day. I then realized my mistake and grabbed the press and brought it in.

    Just like when you leave any metal item outside in colder weather and bring it in, it can and will be cold to the touch and gather moisture. Not a huge deal for the most part as the press just needs to warm up and dry out which it will over the course of 24 hours or so, but here is the lesson, reminder.

    The powder is the issue.

    Fortunately, when doing this type of mobile development, I don't put much powder in the powder measure, so it is not a major thing, one way or another.

    I knew that I would get a "wrong" reading when I dropped a powder charge, so I took some pics, and here were the results.

    I am not going to discuss what cartridge this is for or the brand/type of powder as this was for T&E purposes, but here are some pics.

    The charge was 16.4 grains and dropped extremely consistently.



    After being out in overnight freezing temperatures, the powder charge was now a consistent 17.3 grains.





    Here is the reminder/lesson.

    Powder is hygroscopic. In other words, it absorbs moisture. The minute you open a powder container, it will start to absorb moisture. In the case of being left in a trailer overnight, you have a significant change that is easily verifiable.

    The solution of course was simple. In my case, since I only put small amounts of powder in the machine, I simply dumped it. Once the machine was back at room temps, I also disassemble the powder measure, pulling the powder funnel and as a regular part of my cleaning process I wiped everything down with 99% isopropyl alcohol:



    Back to the powder. Modern smokeless powder is hygroscopic.

    Without going down rabbit holes, the short version is that the higher humidity of your environment, the more moisture your powder is going to absorb. The more controlled you keep your loading environment, the better.



    Along these lines, I was recently up at my elderly fathers house. He has a press set up in his shop. He lives in the mountains of central Idaho. His shop is heated only by a wood stove and the temps swings are considerable. He had a bunch of powder in his press and once I got his press tuned and running right, I asked him how long the powder had been there. He did not know. I asked him if it had been over a month. The punch line is that it was probably in there at least 6 months or more, so I dumped it and reminded him to use smaller amounts and why. He is in his 80s and has some age related memory issues, so this is a something that is an ongoing thing.


    How does all this affect things? This is something that I learned in my 20s. I was loading for my rifle and left powder in my powder drop for a long period of time. I could not figure out why, while using the same charge, my velocities were so low. Simply put, the more moisture in a powder, the slower your velocity will be, when equal weights are used. It took a while to figure it out, as the access to quality information is not there like we have today thanks to the world wide internet.

    Anyways,
    Now that my portable mounted 550 has been acclimated back to its regular environment and cleaned, I ran some test drops. It was dropping charges right on the money again, with no adjustments needed.



    Anyways, hope this serves as a reminder to some and is educational to others.


  2. #2
    Interesting. What do you think would have happened if you left the powder in the hopper and let it acclimate for a couple days?

    I've left the powder in the hopper of my 1050 for years. I only load one charge of 9mm with TiteGroup. My press is in a climate controlled room on the main floor of my home.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BN View Post
    Interesting. What do you think would have happened if you left the powder in the hopper and let it acclimate for a couple days?

    I've left the powder in the hopper of my 1050 for years. I only load one charge of 9mm with TiteGroup. My press is in a climate controlled room on the main floor of my home.
    Short answer to your question is that it is still not going to burn at a rate that is consistent/same as fresh powder. Therefore I would not use it for my task/purposes.



    A lot of it depends on the environment where and individual lives. However in my case, this is for T&E for load development, and there can be zero room for guesswork.

    The fact is that powder absorbs moisture. To what degree the powder is compromised could be tested using fresh powder from a new keg as a baseline, then conducting a series of tests from there. But I do not have the time for that, even though it would be interesting.

    The simplest thing to do is start at zero, with the machine back at its normal temp, everything cleaned just like I do during regular PMCS, and putting fresh powder in.

    If you have left powder in your 1050 for years, it absolutely has absorbed moisture. To what degree is going to vary based on the humidity/environment.

    Obviously small charges of pistol powder such at Titegroup (say 7.5 grains in a 35 super pepper popper) may not see the same dramatic differences as far as velocity as loading 75 grains of H 4831 in a 300wm. But there will be a change.

    Doing what I was doing, such as development work, there can be no room for variables. I would never try to dry out a powder. Just pitch it. For a guy who maybe is loading .38 wadcutters for plinking ammo, that may be fine, but the situations will determine what your course of action should be.



  4. #4
    I load mostly bulk pistol ammo and leave powder in the measures all the time.
    I weigh the first three charges from the progressive to check for overnight settling which seldom amounts to more than a tenth or two. After that, it is clear sailing. I guess the powder has adsorbed all it is going to from the air conditioned shop.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost River View Post

    If you have left powder in your 1050 for years, it absolutely has absorbed moisture. To what degree is going to vary based on the humidity/environment.

    Obviously small charges of pistol powder such at Titegroup (say 7.5 grains in a 35 super pepper popper) may not see the same dramatic differences as far as velocity as loading 75 grains of H 4831 in a 300wm. But there will be a change.

    For a guy who maybe is loading .38 wadcutters for plinking ammo, that may be fine, but the situations will determine what your course of action should be.
    I'm loading 3.2 of TiteGroup over a 147 grain Bayou coated bullet, so pretty close to a guy loading wad cutters for plinking. That has been my competition and practice load for many years. I chrono it from time to time to make sure I have a 130 power factor. I recently opened a keg of Titegroup that i got in 2016, running up to another possible shortage. Every 4 years or so, I make sure I resupply.

  6. #6
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    So this brings up a dumb newbie question. Is it ok to put a dessicant pack in my bottles of powder after I open them?
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  7. #7
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    So this brings up a dumb newbie question. Is it ok to put a dessicant pack in my bottles of powder after I open them?
    Im not sure desicant is the powder is good, it should mainly be tightly capped.

    Ive noticed powder can dry out and thrown charges can weigh light compared from when fresh. And yes, i sometimes leave powder in the measure and forgot it for a while. If one adjusts the measure to throw to weight you may be a bit hot for the powder and charge. This is a theory, Ive never heard or seen anything about it and dont have a chrono to test it. I live in a very dry area, under 10% humidity in summer isnt unusual.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
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  8. #8
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    Some have reported letting powder wet from house flooding dry by spreading it out. Then it was ok.

    My opinion is that though powder is hydroscopic, any increase in weight from absorbing water is insignificant. We should remember that powder measures throw powder charges based on volume. We use weight when reloading because measuring weight is easier than measuring volume.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the reminder, I usually remove the powder from my rifle/pistol powder measures immediately after I finish loading. But, the poor shotgun reloader usually only gets emptied when I swap out reloaders to change gauges.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DMF13 View Post
    So this brings up a dumb newbie question. Is it ok to put a dessicant pack in my bottles of powder after I open them?
    That is a good question. However, there is no baseline, as far as how dry/wet your powder is, and what you may be doing to change it and it's burn rate.

    Your question of a desiccant pack in powder led me to an article online entitled " How does humidity affect powder?" to which I will link (provided that is ok).


    https://chronoplotter.com/2021/08/19...om%20the%20air.

    In the article it reaffirms the original posts above, but goes into FAR greater detail.

    The author quotes Brian Litz, from Applied Ballistics. There is also info from Sven Eric Johansson from Norma. The info from both is in great detail and far more comprehensive than what I touched on. It is well worth the read.

    In short I probably just gave an "intro to" explanation and reminder, and the article really go into a lot of very good detail.

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