Low recoil 8 pellet vs low recoil 9 pellet OO buck felt recoil?

[diananike]

If you have more patterning data to share on the 410 3" OOO loads I'm interested in hearing/seeing it.

If Crimson Trace made laser sight like this https://www.crimsontrace.com/product...01-7820-1.html that worked for Mossberg 410 I'd probably really consider that paired with the 5 pellet OOO buck load as something for certain people to try that are elderly and/or physically limited that aren't really gun people looking for home defense weapon.

Ive tried Winchester, Herters and Federal 3” 5 pellet 000 buck loads.
The federal version is copper plated buck while the others are plain lead.
They all seem to pattern quite similarly. One big hole out to about 5yds.
By 7yds the pellets start to disperse horizontally and vertically and open up into a bit more of a pattern usually no more then about 3”x3” often better.
By 10 yds the pellets start to string vertically and look a lot like the pattern I showed previously.
By 15yds the pellets usually have probounced stringing vertically. About a 6” spread up and down, maybe only a couple of inches wide.
20yds I start to have trouble keeping them all on a 8.5x11” sheet. If I’m using the load my gun likes it might manage. My M6 survival rifle likes the Winchester variety and will keep a 6” vertical spread out at 20yds. While my shockwave prefers the Federal it will spread them over most of the printer paper at 20. Every barrel is its own snowflake. I think the M6 has an edge with its full choke vs the cylinder of the Mossberg.
Stay away from the Aguila 2.5” 00 4 pellet. It wont shoot worth a damn in either of my .410s.

[diananike]

Definitely agree for people that can't or won't handle 12/20 gauge or AR, seems like it might be an adequate long arm that would be real step up from any practical handgun and more price and social friendly than many pistol caliber carbines.

I have tentatively suggested semi auto 22 rimfire rifles to some people in past, based on Chuck Haggard's comments about them and homicide investigations and the ease of use + affordability of them, when nothing more ideal was practical.

I will definitely try to budget for a 410 shotgun for people to try based on conversation here, personally I'd still prefer 357 levergun but IMHO shotgun manual of arms easier for more average people in my area, because I live in shotgun/handgun only deer zone it is what most hunters know.

And like you said, this isn't a replacement for 12 gauge, or IMO 20 gauge or 5.56, but with the 5 Pellet OOO buck load the 410 would be a step up in performance over any of the handguns I would suggest, and improvement over 22 rimfire rifles for reliability and probably performance.

I like lever guns too and shoot my .357 Marlin quite a bit. And so does my wife who prefers the Marlin Youth .30-30 over just about anything else.
But there’s something really attractive about a .410 like the shockwave. Its way lighter and way shorter and I think its easier to use. Loading gates can be a bear, and the external hammer isnt as intuitive a safety as the tang mount on a Mossberg.
Obviously you dont have the same range but within the limitations of a campsite at night, or a bear in your cooler, or a dude down your hallway the rifle accuracy just isn’t necessary.
Also a shockwave costs about half as much as a lever action.
If only .410 shells were more available lately. That lack if ammo is the only thing causing me hesitation in recommending them.

I also do prefer my 12 gauge Shockwave model for my own use. It has a streamlight forend, Holosun 403, and a recoil strap. It is a far more versatile rig then the .410 model, ive shot many grouse with it out to 25yds and itll stack slugs out at 50. A lot more firepower but you pay in weight, bulk and recoil. I used the TAC14 for quite a while but shoot left handed so the Mossberg won out.

[awp_101]

https://www.nrawomen.com/content/do-...-home-defense/


https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/h...fense-2-1-2#!/

I tested the Critical Defence for patterns in my shockwave.
The buckshot pellets patterned ok but the ftx bullet keyholes and spins up and deviates quickly from the main pattern.
I think it was designed for handguns that use a rifled barrel.
If it stabilized in a smoothbore I’d be ok with it but my M6 and shockwave are a no go.

Thanks, I sent him the links and he found some of the Hornady in stock locally. He told me he took the .410 along on his last range trip but I don’t know if that was before or after finding the Hornady. The furthest shot he’d have in his house would be roughly 10 yards so it should be ok.

We also had to have “the talk” about birdshot and aiming a shotgun. The more we talk about defensive shooting, the more Fudd-lore I hear that I never thought I’d hear from him…

[diananike]

Thanks, I sent him the links and he found some of the Hornady in stock locally. He told me he took the .410 along on his last range trip but I don’t know if that was before or after finding the Hornady. The furthest shot he’d have in his house would be roughly 10 yards so it should be ok.

We also had to have “the talk” about birdshot and aiming a shotgun. The more we talk about defensive shooting, the more Fudd-lore I hear that I never thought I’d hear from him…

If I had a wishlist for .410 ammunition manufacturers
Winchester would do a 3” load packed to the max with just defense disks. Like 6 or 7 of them.
Someone would do a 3” load with plated .380 balls. Even 4 of those in a payload would be pretty effective.

[Dov]

Thanks, I sent him the links and he found some of the Hornady in stock locally. He told me he took the .410 along on his last range trip but I don’t know if that was before or after finding the Hornady. The furthest shot he’d have in his house would be roughly 10 yards so it should be ok.

We also had to have “the talk” about birdshot and aiming a shotgun. The more we talk about defensive shooting, the more Fudd-lore I hear that I never thought I’d hear from him…

Good luck, it looks like the OOO loads would best bet of the 410 options, I'm still looking for performance information on the 410 Brenneke Slug that might be okay as well if it doesn't fragment badly like the 410 Foster tend to.

[SCCY Marshal]

...I'm still looking for performance information on the 410 Brenneke Slug that might be okay as well if it doesn't fragment badly like the 410 Foster tend to.

While not "real" gel, the following clear gel and meat target tests indicate that the 3" Brenneke would probably do fine:

Clear - https://yewtu.be/watch?v=E0-uzAkf0aA

Meat - https://yewtu.be/watch?v=LQcot7HrWuU

It's been at least a decade since my wife last dumped a few of them into water and wet phone book/catalog but they dug deep there, as well. Some locals have had no problems with the effectively 40-something caliber hard cast wadcutters on deer when launched from the 3" shells. That all said, I've never seen the 2 1/2" Brenneke in stock locally be it big box or small shop so no idea how those work.

[Dov]

While not "real" gel, the following clear gel and meat target tests indicate that the 3" Brenneke would probably do fine:

Clear - https://yewtu.be/watch?v=E0-uzAkf0aA

Meat - https://yewtu.be/watch?v=LQcot7HrWuU

It's been at least a decade since my wife last dumped a few of them into water and wet phone book/catalog but they dug deep there, as well. Some locals have had no problems with the effectively 40-something caliber hard cast wadcutters on deer when launched from the 3" shells. That all said, I've never seen the 2 1/2" Brenneke in stock locally be it big box or small shop so no idea how those work.

That guy also Chronoed, dissected, measured, weighed, and Clear Gel tested Rem 5 pellet 3" 410 OOO buck load.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pETiI1NKyeo

[Chuck Whitlock]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I've been contemplating getting a 590S Shockwave, and had not given a .410 any thought at all. Color me intrigued.

[Jamie]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I've been contemplating getting a 590S Shockwave, and had not given a .410 any thought at all. Color me intrigued.

I have a 12 g Shockwave and just received some 8 pellet Flitecontrol Fed to pattern in it.

Now I'm thinking maybe I need one in .410 as I slide into my 70's.

Really interesting info and observations in this thread. Thank you all.

You guys, P-F in general, are definitely an influence in my my life. Still trying to figure out if that's "good", or "bad"

[fatdog]

Happy with my Tac 14 for what it is, but the 410 is on my list now. Overall weight unloaded of 4.24 lbs also makes it a "different thing" in my mind. I am also in the Medicare cadre now causing me to think about such things as recoil more and more. I too had never considered it before this discussion.