Sporting Clays and Upland Hunting

[idahojess]

I like over-unders for upland hunting. (I would go semi-auto for waterfowl).

I like the safety of breaking them open when dealing with stuff -- trees, ditches, fences, handling a dog, walking down a public road, walking around public areas, whatever.

Shotguns are pretty long, and I don't think they are really conducive to any sort of ready slinging for upland hunting. Plus, when a gun's broken open you have the ability of keeping the muzzle in a safe direction till a dog gets birdy or on point. Keeping that muzzle pointed straight up can be tiring.


A 20 gauge is a nice compromise, light and not hard kicking. Palmetto has a CZ you can pick up for about $500. I've handled and shot older CZ's and they seemed nice, albeit Turkish. If you upland hunt, you will scratch up your gun.

[entropy]

Been reading this but bit my tongue since you mentioned “auto only”. I agree with the directly above though. You can find light 20s that won’t kick anymore (maybe less) than a 12 auto. Biggest thing is (besides the above) is that an auto is gonna get heavy, and when all said and done it’s difficult to carry any other way in the field besides straight up or angled forward off your hip bone. This is especially true if with other hunters or with dogs. A few weeks back I loaned my O/U to my son after he go sick of lugging a 12ga pump around ND. In turn, I grabbed my 11-87 12ga. It got downright uncomfortable after a while. (What we do for our kids...)

My humble suggestion is also a light 20ga O/U Shoot 7/8 low base shells or even better some B&P or Gamebore out it. If necessary, get a better pad put on. Also, shotgun fit is EVERYTHING. Both in comfort and performance. As goofy as it sounds, spending $100 to get fitted might be money well spent too.

[Jim Watson]

A friend is an avid pheasant hunter. I call her my "protege" but that is only in pistol shooting.
She splurged on a Benelli Ultra Lite, 6.1 lbs of 12 gauge. Yes, it kicks a bit but how many shots are you going to get on game on a given day? She only shoots a little trap as a pre-season warmup.
She says it is common for one of the men in the party to hooraw her little girlie gun in the morning but be very interested in trying it out later in the day.

[APS-PF]

I think I am going to lean towards this one,https://www.beretta.com/en-us/produc...nthetic-FA0026, it seemed like the best value for money for me. Based on my reading, it should have the KickOff system. If I am wrong about the KickOff, please let me know.

Yes that has the mid-stock kick off system.

[APS-PF]

We all collectively decided the old style slid against your face and was less comfortable than the new.

I have read that and also there was a guy in a vid who was hefty and his neck fat would get pinched by the Kick off at the end of the stock. I don't feel it moving on my cheek or the KO compressing when I shoot. I'm probably lucky that I have this recoil problem or I'd be knee deep in expensive over/unders.

[Caballoflaco]

If you don’t want to go 20ga some Olympic skeet/trap or other light 7/8 loads at around 1150fps are softer recoiling than an AK in my 21” 1301 comp and they run the gun just fine as long as it’s fairly clean and lubed.

[Borderland]

I think a person has to decide on the weight of the gun given what it will be used for most of the time. If you walk 3 miles for every pheasant or hun you get a crack at you get smarter fast. That was the name of the game for wild birds where we hunted on the Snake R. The ideal shotgun there would be no heavier than 7 lbs. Heavier turns into work for no extra benefit. It was a rare day that I used more than 10 rounds chasing wild birds with a dog so ammo load out is also a thing.

Knowing what I know today, a 20 ga. would be optimal, especially with a pointer or versatile dog like a GSP. I never used a 20 ga but the weight reduction would be welcome. I like My 12 ga Beretta 426 weighed about 7 lbs.

I also knew some chukar hunters. I shot a few but never really chased those. Chukar hunters are a totally different breed of upland hunter. The ones I knew used 12 ga Benelli M2's with synthetic furniture if they could afford one.

I'm not sure about the reduced recoil of a 20 ga O/U because I just don't have enough experience shooting one. I can tell you that a gas operated auto will substantially reduce recoil. I just proved that to myself using a test a few weeks ago. I shot my 870 and 11-87 one after the other using the same ammo. They both weigh about 7.8 lbs. The 11-87 has far less recoil which I expected. I purposely bought one for that reason. The difference in 75 rds shooting clays vs 10 rds shooting birds is yuge.

I've noticed that the crowd where I shoot trap has mostly negative opinions about 20 ga guns. Most of those guys couldn't hike a mile though.

[Rick R]

Thanks for the replies. The comments about an auto loader being a bit longer than an over/under made a lot of sense.

The thing I didn’t mention is that I have an issue with my shoulder that makes a semi-auto pretty much a requirement, and I likely need something piston driven vs inertia driven. That’s a my bad for not mentioning it.

The analogy of shotgun sports being like baseball made a lot of sense based on my lesson the other day. When I just reacted I did pretty well. Once I started getting in my own way was when I had trouble.

I totally saw the value of doing Sporting Clays with the gun not mounted, that seemed like the most realistic way to do Sporting Clays. I view Sporting Clays, probably inaccurately, like practical shooting, but for hunting.

I think I am going to lean towards this one,https://www.beretta.com/en-us/produc...nthetic-FA0026, it seemed like the best value for money for me. Based on my reading, it should have the KickOff system. If I am wrong about the KickOff, please let me know.

You sound like you’re more interested in clays than birds just now, my recommendation would be to shoot a heavier gas gun initially to reduce recoil and promote swing. The suggestion to use lighter loads is a good one too, an ounce of #8 at 1,150fps will break a target a surprisingly long distance away. Then if you get into hunting in a big way you’re going to want a hunting gun (or two) because it’s the PF way.

Originally Sporting Clays required a low gun when calling for a target and FITASC still does. I know guys who start low and they claim it helps them see the target and start their swing. In any event there’s nothing stopping you from starting from wherever you choose, specially if you’re just shooting for recreation.

I'm probably lucky that I have this recoil problem or I'd be knee deep in expensive over/unders.

My wife and I normally shoot Caesar Guerini O/U 12ga guns, both guns fit us and recoil is really pretty light with target ammo. Empty hulls are easier to manage too since they’re not thrown all over the place.

[mmc45414]

You sound like you’re more interested in clays than birds just now, my recommendation would be to shoot a heavier gas gun initially to reduce recoil and promote swing.

And that was good to mention, lightweight guns that are easy to swing are also easy to stop, and not stopping your swing is always a tricky part of shooting clays.

[Coal Train]

I upland hunt quite a bit, shoot sporting clays, and also shoot just "informal" clays at the farm. I don't get to do any of them as much as I "should" so my opinion is worth just what you paid for it. :-)

An upland gun and a sporting clays gun are two pretty different things. Based on what you describe in the OP I would plan your equipment around sporting clays as that will likely be what you do most. And if you are just getting into hunting you will most likely be doing release type birds and will not be doing long walks where the heavier gun would cause you a problem. Sticking with a 12 gauge is the way to go. There is a seemingly universally held perception that a 20 gauge has less recoil than a 12 gauge. The diameter of the barrel has no impact on the recoil of a shotgun. It is true that typical 20 gauge loads are lighter than typical 12 gauge loads but 20 gauge guns are typically lighter as well. I have owned (too) many shotguns over the years and in my experience the more typical result is that the 20 gauge model of a shotgun has more recoil than the same model in 12 gauge. Not much, but noticeable. The advantage of the 20 gauge is lighter weight/trimmer in dimension for carrying/handling or the perceived challenge of using them for clays, neither of which really line up with your intended use.

The analogy of shotgun sports being like baseball made a lot of sense based on my lesson the other day. When I just reacted I did pretty well. Once I started getting in my own way was when I had trouble.

I totally saw the value of doing Sporting Clays with the gun not mounted, that seemed like the most realistic way to do Sporting Clays. I view Sporting Clays, probably inaccurately, like practical shooting, but for hunting.

Shooting clays "seriously" requires a significant amount of mental conditioning and physical consistency. The computer between your ears can do some pretty serious calculations if you feed it good data in the form of an uncluttered mind, a focused sight picture, and the gun being in consistently the same place. Shotgunning is instinctive but building the learning process correctly (e.g. getting your target picture right without worrying about gun mount) can help you improve more quickly than doing everyone at once. I started shooting a shotgun at a young age from low mount "see it and shoot it" and when I started to get more serious when I got older I had to spend time unlearning some things. If you are taking lessons you are definitely on the right track. Everyone is different.

Sporting clays began as simulated hunting (e.g. practical shooting) but I would argue that for most sporting clay courses now it is now it is the least hunting like of the major clay games because of the target set up. Meaning that many target set ups on a sporting clays course do not mimic things that upland birds do. Any time spent shooting a shotgun at moving targets helps across all the sports/bird species but if your sole purpose in shooting clays is to practice for hunting I would recommend trap or skeet. But sporting clays is definitely more fun :-)

I think I am going to lean towards this one,https://www.beretta.com/en-us/produc...nthetic-FA0026, it seemed like the best value for money for me. Based on my reading, it should have the KickOff system. If I am wrong about the KickOff, please let me know.

The people who shoot clays "seriously" who use a semi-auto almost exclusively use an A400 so it is definitely a solid choice. The 1301 is a great shotgun but it is terrible for both clays and hunting. I'm not sure where you are located but if you have the option, I would recommend purchasing it from a dealer that has a solid relationship with their Beretta rep (i.e. either high volume or one of their more upscale dealers). You are unlikely to have problems with an A400 but if you do Beretta's customer service is amazingly terrible so having a dealer that can help navigate that experience through the Beretta rep would be helpful.

I am biased but upland hunting and shooting clays are by far and away the most enjoyable things you can do in the shooting world.