Sporting Clays and Upland Hunting

[Archimagirus]

I am hoping to get some info from the hive mind on this subject before I purchase my next shotgun. I have recently gotten interested in Sporting Clays and maybe start Upland Bird hunting (i.e. Quail and Pheasant.)

I have a 1301, but I think I likely need something with a bit longer barrel. I know, I know, it’s the Indian not the arrow, but I don’t want my equipment selection to hinder my possible development.

I rented a ln A400 with a 28 inch barrel and I felt like it didn’t move instinctively for me and I did love the weight.

The options I am considering are an a400 with a 26 inch barrel or a 1301 Competition with a 24 inch barrel.

Any suggestions or insight into those two disciplines?

Thanks.

P.S. I know a 28 gauge is the bee’s knees for Upland Hunting but I would prefer to stick with a 12 gauge.

[mmc45414]

I have a lotta clays experience and limited hunting experience.

I would say to get something (like the Berettas) that give you a drop and cast adjustment and just start getting trigger time.

I am also convinced that skeet will give you a steeper learning curve because you get the same presentations over again. When you miss a sporting clays target it is difficult to learn from your mistakes, because you may never, (maybe never ever) get that same presentation to try it again. Skeet is also cheaper and easier and faster.

I think the 24" is probably on the short side for something that you are going to be swinging, but could work out OK.

I think if you get good at the games the hunting will take care of itself, for the most part.

[DamonL]

I only shoot trap and skeet for fun and not competition. I know for target guns, people like heavy, long-barreled over-unders. Popular barrel lengths are 30" or 32" barrels. I don't hunt but light and shorter guns are preferred when you carry a gun in the field. The A400 with a longer barrel is popular for people shooting clay sports with a semi-auto.

[Elwin]

I've done a lot of both. Less now than I used to, but in Jr. High and Highschool I shot pretty much weekly sporting clays in the summers and hunted a lot. I still get to chase birds once or twice a year these days and I'm planning to get back into it all again once I have the time for a field dog.

I'd recommend considering a 20ga, especially for quail, but if you're sticking with 12ga, the below still should be helpful.

Keep in mind that when people talk barrel length, it matters whether we're talking about pumps/autos or break actions, and gauge makes a difference because smaller gauge guns are typically lighter to begin with. Someone who says 32" is the way to go because that's what they have on their 20ga Browning Citori isn't giving relevant advice to the guy looking for a 12ga auto. The autos and pumps add overall length because of their long receivers, so a 30" barrel auto in any gauge is a very long gun suitable for sporting clays and waterfowl and not so much for carrying in a field. For example, my favorite guns are 20ga break actions with 30" or 28" barrels, but for an auto I definitely want something shorter to get similar handling.

So, sticking with 12ga and autos, I certainly wouldn't go below 24" and would suggest sticking with 26". I'd also recommend the A400 over the Comp for this purpose. The S400 is more of a field and clays gun, while the comps are more for 3-gun and the like where you see some flying clays but are also shooting static targets. Keep in mind that just because both tactical shotgunning and wingshooting involve shotguns does not mean they are the same thing - they are in fact completely different disciplines with completely different techniques and skills, and the way I always put it is that wingshooting is more similar to baseball than it is to any other kind of shooting. You will have an easier time learning to stop aiming and swing at the target with a proper tool for the job.

Along the same lines, you are looking for something different when it comes to balance. A wing/clays gun is typically supposed to have just a little weight up front because that encourages a proper swing and follow through. What length is right depends on gun type and gauge and application and all, but you don't necessarily want something with the balance of the weight between your hands, and you definitely don't want it back-heavy.

[Rick R]

Skeet is great if you don’t fall down the competition mindset rabbit hole where 200/200 four times in a row gets you in the running to place in the top ten. Skeet does provide repeatable presentations that are great for learning to hit flying targets. Another option is 5 Stand which is Sporting Clays type shooting on a Skeet sized course.

I love shooting Sporting Clays and usually shoot an Over/Under with 30” barrels but I could be quite happy with an A400 particularly a Multi Target, more so if my primary HD gun was a 1301. The 1301 Competition I shot at 5 Stand was a nice gun but just didn’t swing and point like a Multi Target does.

One compromise might be the A400 XCEL Sporting
https://www.beretta.com/en-us/produc...porting-FA0016

If you decide in a Beretta with the “Kick Off” recoil reducer be aware that the newer style in the middle of the stock is more pleasant to shoot than the original where the squishy parts were at the butt end of the gun. The XCEL Sporting wouldn’t be ludicrous to take hunting, just a bit heavy.

[APS-PF]

I've got 2 Xcels for sporting clays and a 28" Xplor Action for upland, all A400s with the Kick Off on the end. I'm not sure what Rick R is talking about but my experience with my 2013 vs 2022 Xcels is that the new style Kick Off in the middle of the stock absolutely has more felt recoil than the old style at the end. If you're not having recoil issues just stick with the normal stock. I never had to adjust mine but they come with shims for changing the stock. Under $1000 the A300 Ultima seems like a nice gun.

[Rick R]

I've got 2 Xcels for sporting clays and a 28" Xplor Action for upland, all A400s with the Kick Off on the end. I'm not sure what Rick R is talking about but my experience with my 2013 vs 2022 Xcels is that the new style Kick Off in the middle of the stock absolutely has more felt recoil than the old style at the end. If you're not having recoil issues just stick with the normal stock. I never had to adjust mine but they come with shims for changing the stock. Under $1000 the A300 Ultima seems like a nice gun.

We all collectively decided the old style slid against your face and was less comfortable than the new. But it may have been a group delusion too. The new style doesn’t flex as far as the old. In any event we only got the kick offs to work with heavy handicap loads as a minimum on up into actual field loads. I agree that just sticking with a normal stock is fine, particularly with normal target loads.

There is at least one A300 owner at our club, it’s a nice gun for a lot less money and breaks clays if you put the shot where the target is going to be. It doesn’t have the “Blink” system like an A400 but really nobody is fast enough on normal targets for that to matter.

[DIESEL]

I’m going into my 5th season with a Stoeger M3500 waterfowl. I think if you’re going auto, it’s hard to beat for the price point, less than half an A400 and same action. I shoot skeet and hunt upland occasionally, waterfowl is my main addiction. It has a 28” barrel but swings easy and is pretty light to carry in the field. I pulled the heavy “recoil reducer” rod out as I would rather have light weight and don’t mind the kick of 12G even with 3.5 2 shot or BB. I know it’s not exactly what you’re looking for but don’t write it off until you have the chance to handle one. Living in the PNW, it’s nice to be able to crumple a Canadian flying by at 40 yards so don’t limit yourself.

[Borderland]

I have a lot of time on quail, pheasants and huns. Most of my clays shooting has been trap. I did some skeet many years ago for a few years. I've tried sporting but didn't care for it much. I recently tried 5 stand but I didn't care for it either but I've always had a shotgun jones most of my life.

I don't have a dog nor do I hunt anymore, but I still shoot trap to keep up my skill level with a shotgun. I recently purchased a shotgun just for fun with no specific use planned for it. Although I love doubles, and I have had a few, I didn't buy one and I'll explain. When I hunted I used a sxs with a 28'' barrel. That seemed to be the answer for light weight and balance in the field. Those are just stupid expensive if you want a good one so hard pass there. An O/U would be next up for upland and clays. Lots of people choose those with a 28-30'' barrel for both. Not too heavy and fast enough for birds.

Remember that most clay shooting in the US is with a mounted gun. That's not a good habit to get into if you want to be a crack shot in the field. The gun you want there should be light, quick to shoulder with a smooth swing to the shot. Excessive weight in front of the center point of your hands won't help you in that situation. In fact, it will slow you down. IMO, 32" barrels on an O/U are strictly target guns using a pre mounted shot.

So now back to the type of shotgun. I think that autoloaders are the best value these days. There are some good ones out there for reasonable money. The trick is to get one that works for both field and targets. I'm always going to go with a shorter barrel than what's popular with clays shooters. They seem to like the added weight of longer barrels. That's probably because they're target shooters. I get that.

The magic balance for a double is 28". 30' if you happen to be over 6'. The magic balance with an autoloader is 26-28". Same same. As others have said, a 28'' double equals a 26" auto loader. I bought a 26" 11-87 for shits and grins. I can shoot trap just fine with it. Shot a 23 with it on Tuesday. I'm not going to the Olympics with it but it can double as a bird gun. Takes me back to my younger days in the field.

Edit.

A Beretta A-400 would have been my choice if I bought new. I couldn't afford the expense given that I'm only fooling around with trap shooting between pistol and rifle shooting. I'd rather buy shotgun ammo with the 1200 bucks.

[Archimagirus]

Thanks for the replies. The comments about an auto loader being a bit longer than an over/under made a lot of sense.

The thing I didn’t mention is that I have an issue with my shoulder that makes a semi-auto pretty much a requirement, and I likely need something piston driven vs inertia driven. That’s a my bad for not mentioning it.

The analogy of shotgun sports being like baseball made a lot of sense based on my lesson the other day. When I just reacted I did pretty well. Once I started getting in my own way was when I had trouble.

I totally saw the value of doing Sporting Clays with the gun not mounted, that seemed like the most realistic way to do Sporting Clays. I view Sporting Clays, probably inaccurately, like practical shooting, but for hunting.

I think I am going to lean towards this one,https://www.beretta.com/en-us/produc...nthetic-FA0026, it seemed like the best value for money for me. Based on my reading, it should have the KickOff system. If I am wrong about the KickOff, please let me know.