AR for use with suppressor

[HCM]

After spending time and money experimenting, my conclusion is if an AR extracts, ejects and locks back on the last round unsuppressed, it is over gassed for suppressor use. Recoil will be unnecessarily sharp and become painful after more than a few shots. Sharp recoil batters the AR unnecessarily. There's no need to put up with either situation when the solution is easy and inexpensive. Normally, I tell people shoot before modifying, ammo before accessories, but in this case I make the exception. Does that mean I think a BRT gas tube has to be installed before shooting a factory Colt AR with a suppressor? No. Shooting suppressed before installing the BRT will show what a difference proper gas flow makes.

The BRT gas tube addresses one issue- An over sized gas port. The BRT gas tube is a simple, economical and acceptable alternative to replacing an over gassed barrel.

I appreciate a well gassed AR, and it might even make a minor difference in split times but even the most over gassed AR in 5.56 is not “painful.”

[MistWolf]

I appreciate a well gassed AR, and it might even make a minor difference in split times but even the most over gassed AR in 5.56 is not “painful.”

I'm not worried about split times. However, sharp recoil causes a little bit of pain with each shot and it accumulates. My first shorty AR was a 10.5 inch pistol with a huge gas port. It was so overgassed, it slapped my shoulder and stung my trigger finger. Being stubborn as a mule, I tried to power my way through it. The pain only got worse with each shot and I ended up with broken capillaries from the butt-pad. No, I'm not a tough guy and I usually only wear a tee shirt when shooting and I did go through a couple of hundred rounds each session. But it hurt even through my heavy jacket. To hell with that noise! Shooting is supposed to be fun. That started me down the road of experimenting with different gas flow (adjustable gas block), action springs, buffers, ammo and extractor springs.

You know what a factory 6920 lacks? That sharp recoil. A Colt civilian M4A1 is even softer. My factory SBR 11.5 inch Colt with an Omega suppressor is a soft shooter. To get there, I used a BRT gas port reducer in the FSB sized for shooting 100%. With a bit more tuning, I settled on a Sprinco rifle length action spring and an A5H2 (whichever one is about rifle buffer weight). The result is a soft shooting suppressed SBR.

Bottom line- Life is too short and I'm too old to shoot a sharp recoiling AR, suppressed or not.

Note that I use the terms "sharp" and "soft" recoil, not "increased" or "decreased" recoil in this discussion.

[HCM]

I'm not worried about split times. However, sharp recoil causes a little bit of pain with each shot and it accumulates. My first shorty AR was a 10.5 inch pistol with a huge gas port. It was so overgassed, it slapped my shoulder and stung my trigger finger. Being stubborn as a mule, I tried to power my way through it. The pain only got worse with each shot and I ended up with broken capillaries from the butt-pad. No, I'm not a tough guy and I usually only wear a tee shirt when shooting and I did go through a couple of hundred rounds each session. But it hurt even through my heavy jacket. To hell with that noise! Shooting is supposed to be fun. That started me down the road of experimenting with different gas flow (adjustable gas block), action springs, buffers, ammo and extractor springs.

You know what a factory 6920 lacks? That sharp recoil. A Colt civilian M4A1 is even softer. My factory SBR 11.5 inch Colt with an Omega suppressor is a soft shooter. To get there, I used a BRT gas port reducer in the FSB sized for shooting 100%. With a bit more tuning, I settled on a Sprinco rifle length action spring and an A5H2 (whichever one is about rifle buffer weight). The result is a soft shooting suppressed SBR.

Bottom line- Life is too short and I'm too old to shoot a sharp recoiling AR, suppressed or not.

Note that I use the terms "sharp" and "soft" recoil, not "increased" or "decreased" recoil in this discussion.

The OP is buying a factory Colt 6960. It’s a factory midlength.

Not a defective with a gas port like a porn star’s orifices.

Shoot the gun. Fix if needed. If not, needed don’t mess with it.

The idea that any gun that is functional un-suppressed must be modified sight unseen because it is presumed to be overgassed when suppressed is not a valid assumption.

The gun, ammo and suppressor are a system so all are factors. Change a factor you change the equation.

With proper choices it is possible to get a gun that is properly gassed both suppressed and unsuppressed.

Hodge is the prime example but I’ve been able to get similar results from Primary Arms house brand (Expo) barrels which are 1/4 the cost.

PSA was mentioned up thread but there are “premium” guns like Noveske which are severely over-gassed.

Going back to cans:

As stated up thread I have an Omega, I was an early adopter. TLDR that can, like the AAC M-4 2000 has significant back pressure. I’ve seen it cause malfunctions in multiple guns that ran fine with SF, YHM, and Dead Air cans.

I’d rather relegate it to bolt gun use than re-engineer my guns around a poorly designed can. Particularly when a YHM can at half the price doesn’t require the Rube-Goldberg effort.

[Robinson]

As stated up thread I have an Omega, I was an early adopter. TLDR that can, like the AAC M-4 2000 has significant back pressure. I’ve seen it cause malfunctions in multiple guns that ran fine with SF, YHM, and Dead Air cans.

I’d rather relegate it to bolt gun use than re-engineer my guns around a poorly designed can. Particularly when a YHM can at half the price doesn’t require the Rube-Goldberg effort.

Yeah I've decided my Omega will stay on my 300 BLK bolt gun and am pretty much committed to a dedicated 5.56 suppressor -- very likely a YHM reduced blowback model.

Amazon dropped off a set of Daniel Defense fixed BUIS and a QD MLOK sling attachment today. The Colt will be in my FFL dealer's hands by Monday.

[Nephrology]

in my experience every solution to running an AR suppressed has limits. I agree with HCM you should just shoot what you got and adjust as needed. The BRT gas tube is a great way to adjust pressure but I have also been satisfied with adjustable gas blocks and carriers. The carrier is an easy drop in solution -0 my two bootlegs work just fine.

edit: The YHM Turbo K is a great value 5.56 suppressor. I have two and will probably buy another at some point down the line.

[Odin Bravo One]

Piston guns only partially work around the problem; by default they're almost always overgassed and not a lot of them have suppressor settings. Not until recently, anyway. I had a Colt 6940P that I actually really liked until I put a can on it. It was already overgassed, and putting a can on it (albeit a high backpressure one from like 2015) did it ZERO favors. It just got really dirty, cycled really fast, and became objectively worse. Brass was pooping out straight forward.

Steyr AUGs also didn't work all that well, same reason; it really liked beating the crap out of itself, to the point where parts would bend or break (like the bolt sleeve, or cracking/breaking the plastic supports that the rods that the guide rods on the bolt carriers slide onto, etc). Steyr came out with (or at least, finally started selling in the US) a suppressor-specific gas plug a couple of years ago that "fixed" the issues with it. I can only guess more modern rifles with adjustable gas plugs actually work better. I know the FN SCAR was still overgassed even with the gas plug in "suppressed" setting (which the manual didn't actually remark on...it just said to keep the gas plug in the 12:00 setting - source, the manual that came with my SCAR 17) - I wound up having to re-jet my SCAR to try to prevent it from beating itself up with a can on it. Mine would cycle just fine in the "suppressed" setting until I re-jetted it; now it short strokes in the suppressed setting, and cycles fine in the normal setting.

I'm sure the HuxWrx and other blow through cans work better; I'm still not sold on their efficacy as actual silencers, but I've also never heard/shot one in person. Videos of them make them seem like shrieky deflating balloons so meh?

Anyway - point is, most piston guns don't really "solve" the problem, they just move the problem to a different set of parts, and possibly make it easier to solve if the right parts exist for it.

Ok…….

I’m not here to convince anyone. If you feel that strongly about something without ever having used one, then any words of mine are not going to make anyone want to. Maybe I’d I got kick backs but alas, my opinion is only my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Evil_Ed]

Ok…….

I’m not here to convince anyone. If you feel that strongly about something without ever having used one, then any words of mine are not going to make anyone want to. Maybe I’d I got kick backs but alas, my opinion is only my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

? I literally said I used piston guns repeatedly in my post and all they do is move the problem from one set of parts to another, in my experience, and gave 3 examples. Two of which are guns you can actually still buy new..and one might come back into play if Colt sacks up for it. And if they give it an adjustable gas piston...I might even be willing to give it a shot again.

[Robinson]

Ok…….

I’m not here to convince anyone. If you feel that strongly about something without ever having used one, then any words of mine are not going to make anyone want to. Maybe I’d I got kick backs but alas, my opinion is only my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Thanks for your comments on here -- a piston gun wasn't really on my radar. I'm new to the AR and I'm starting out with a DI gun but who knows where it could lead.

[Odin Bravo One]

? I literally said I used piston guns repeatedly in my post and all they do is move the problem from one set of parts to another, in my experience, and gave 3 examples. Two of which are guns you can actually still buy new..and one might come back into play if Colt sacks up for it. And if they give it an adjustable gas piston...I might even be willing to give it a shot again.

Sorry, I meant something with actual proven field use like a 416……..

[Sero Sed Serio]

@MistWolf what do you think of the Sionics uppers which are build specifically for supressors? Good to go?

Sionics is a company run by people with a P-F-level of knowledge about the AR system that offer Model T level options, but do it right. They are my go-to recommendation for an AR done right.