Weapon reliability; How do you guys deal with this GODDAMNED FRUSTRATION! 🤬

[Chomps]

Except for having my barrels feed cone retooled by Macon Armory,… I followed all the recommendations & advice on blowback9.com for fixing my two FM9’s. (10.5” recently SBR’d & 16” in case the ATF bent me over). Using that website I finally got my PCC running reliably,…………


……FOR A FEW HUNDRED STINKING ROUNDS!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Right now the lower for my 16 inch FM nine is in operable. Bolt catch was stuck and I could not use it to manually drop or hold open the BCG. I got it unstuck, but then the one 16th set screw was completely frozen inside it and I could not loosen it to adjust or fix the LRBHO apparatus. I had used blue Loctite on it when I last adjusted it as it was recommended by the manufacturer foxtrot Mike, but that seem to have set in such a fashion that I almost ruined the 1/16 Allen trying to loosen it. I finally got it out by filling the hole in the bolt catch where the setscrew lay With Hoppe’s #9, some gun scrubber and some lubricant.

The first set screw fortunately came out, granted slowly and stiffly as it was gummed up,… But I did get it out. I can’t do anything with the second set screw. I put as much torque as I dare on that 1/16 Allen and it feels like I’m gonna twist it or strip the set screw. Either way the Allen’s gotten jammed in the setscrew a couple of times so it’s starting to slip in the wrench slot.



I’m not posting this here because I think somebody will have a fix for this. I am fairly certain that the only way this is going to get fixed is to send another FM nine lower back to the manufacturer like I did with my 10 1/2 inch.

I’m posting this here because I want to know how do you guys deal with this goddamn miserable frustration of spending money,… Sometimes thousands of dollars on equipment that a SHOULD BE COMPLETELY FUNCTIONAL? And pardon the pun, but BULLETPROOF RELIABLE as well????

Even if I set aside the amount of money I spent on the weapon and the accessories in the augments for them,… Every time I think I’ve got one fixed,.. I have to piss awayhundreds of dollars worth of ammo to vet the fucking thing all over again. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

I read the fucking reviews, I thought I did my due diligence,… There was way more on the positive side then on the negative side and yet every time I think I’ve got something fixed with these fucking PCC’s, next thing you know I’m chasing down another rabbit hole trying to figure out something else that’s gone wrong.

And to make matters worse I hear about the same kind of frustrating, reliability crap coming from folks concerning other AR platform rifles. Not just PCC’s. And not just budget rifles either. It’s buffer types length weight reciprocating mass, non-reciprocating, hot springs, light springs, gas tube adjustments etc. etc. etc. etc. ad Infinitum

All I really remember about the M-16’s I fired (Eons ago) in the military, was the fucking things just worked most of the goddamn time. And on occasion when they didn’t? Gunny would just kick the SHIT out of the charging handle, it would unjam and work gangbusters again! 🤣😎 🤷*♂️


I am ranting & venting here because I’m frustrated AF over the prospect of having to send yet another weapon back to the manufacturer to try and Unfuck something that should’ve been UNFUCKED before it hit the market. WTAF???? 🤬🤬

(…sigh! I imagine somebody here will school me on the realities of modern weapons manufacturing and business practices, but it’s still chaps my ASS!!!.) 😞

[Sig_Fiend]

Sorry to hear about the issues. The difficulty with the AR-15 platform for any sort of custom build is the same as the difficulty with 1911 builds. Tons of companies making products, very few standards, wide variances in spec, and lots of tolerance stacking issues. That gets compounded when also converting an AR to a different operating system it wasn't originally designed for. On top of this, small boutique manufacturers usually haven't had the opportunity to produce in enough volume to identify and eliminate all potential issues.

I haven't built a PCC AR, so I can't speak to that. I have built close to three dozen AR's over the years. If there's one thing I've noticed, there's a substantial variance among manufacturers even with some of the smallest and simplest parts. Things like even selector or bolt catch springs sourced from overseas to save a fraction of a cent, possibly at the expense of inconsistency in spec. One thing that usually helps is sticking to a relatively short list of trusted manufacturers that are more consistent and build/source domestically (e.g. Colt, FN, BCM, Schmidt Tool, McMaster Carr for certain springs/pins/screws, etc.) to at least hopefully reduce any potential tolerance stacking issues.

Even more annoying is certain manufacturers are good with some components but not others. For example, Aero Precision's receivers are generally good quality and consistent. Their small parts, not so much.

[JCN]

@Chomps would something like this help?

[JRB]

First and foremost - virtually all the blowback 9mm PCC sorts of AR's are hobby guns, and involve a lot of screwing around to make them work/keep them working. Ostensibly the only 'duty capable' design is the old Colt pattern 9mm and those of course had their own issues. So I'd start by managing expectations there. If you're really needing to 'vet' these rifles as a serious defensive weapon, I'd strongly reconsider the 9mm PCC AR thing. Go instead to a reputable duty-issued model of 5.56 AR, or choose something else that's designed to be a 9mm, like an MP5 clone, a Stribog, a Scorpion, or something like that.
If you absolutely have to have a 9mm AR because:reasons, get a factory Colt 9mm 6951 or build up a lower using an old RO653 kit or similar.

Second - on fasteners and loctite and all that stuff. With any service or repair recommendation, most manufacturers will invariably choose the simplest but most extreme fix to prevent 'it' from happening again.
In the case of a small screw like that backing out occasionally, I think blue loctite is a bit extreme.
I'd try heating the exposed head of the fastener itself with the tip of a soldering iron to weaken the loctite and hopefully make it easier to unscrew.

Generally speaking, I dislike lowers that use tiny threaded screws where roll pins should be. Screws always back out. But I say that not being 100% familiar with exactly how Foxtrot Mike does all that stuff.

[Chomps]

@JCN,..

That might work, but I didn’t use any LocTite on the second set screw.

So you have an idea of what I’m talking about and how the set up works here’s the short vid tutorial on how to change/adjust the LRBHO & bolt catch.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vptUNj...UJTHJiaG8gZm05

As I understand it the first set screw that I removed is used to lock down the inner set screw. The inner set screw is used to lock the LRBHO armature in place after its adjusted. I didn’t use any Loctite on that screw, although I suppose some could’ve migrated into it from the first set screw. Either way, the first set screw was locked firmly in the place and if it didn’t come loose the function shouldn’t of changed. The LRBHO should not have stopped functioning as it hadn’t worked loose.

That fact along with the fact that the inner city screw seems to be completely jammed/frozen leads me to believe that something broke or sheared or had some sort of failure during my last range session to make it in operable. In fact I’m sure it has because the lever that actuates bolt catch bolt release and last round bolt hold open feature will move independently of the bolt release button and it shouldn’t with that set screw jammed firmly in place.

The issue with the set screw not coming out is that I can’t remove the entire LRBHO without getting that loose And if I can’t remove it I can fix it, can’t replace it 🤷*♂️

[Malamute]

And to make matters worse I hear about the same kind of frustrating, reliability crap coming from folks concerning other AR platform rifles. Not just PCC’s. And not just budget rifles either. It’s buffer types length weight reciprocating mass, non-reciprocating, hot springs, light springs, gas tube adjustments etc. etc. etc. etc. ad Infinitum

Ive had a small handful of ARs over time, mainly Colts, mainly 20" rifles. Other than one finicky non-Colt match chambered barrel, theyve been more reliable than the AKs Ive messed with, more reliable than the Mauser rifles Ive messed with. One buffer, rifle. One spring, rifle, Colt. Fixed stock. No staking of the tube nut thing. Keep moderately clean, oiled, good quality and condition GI metal mags or Colt 20s, they work. Stupid accurate with decent ammo, prairie dogs @ 300 yards off the hood of the truck. I read the many little things people tinker with on carbines and know I havent got anywhere near the patience required for any of that.

[Rex G]

Is the this “reliability for defensive usage, or competition? I have never heard of FM. As at least one of the earlier reply posts have mentioned, 9mm AR-ish weapons are, realistically, hobby guns, as I see it. The farther one gets from the original M16, AR15, and M4 specs, and 5.56 NATO, the more opportunities exist for trouble. This was designed as a Direct-Impingement gas rifle, so, I recommend judging the system from that perspective.

I am not being a brand snob. My first AR/M4 was Knight Armament, a “prestige” brand, a gift from my wife, and it had to go back to KAC for correction of a major feeding issue. My second AR, a skinny-barrel 16” Colt AR15A2 Govt Carbine*, never malfunctioned, in any way, in the several years I owned it. I sold it to an LE colleague, with younger eyes, and every time I inquired, he indicated that it remained reliable.

I am not any kind of expert.

*”Pre-Ban” configuration, purchased with PD letterhead during the AWB, in 2002.

[Rex G]

If the purpose is home and self defense, look here:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....asy-Button-%94

[Chomps]

If the purpose is home and self defense, look here:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....asy-Button-%94

Yes,.. Sorry! I meant to correct this in my second post,…
But yes personal / home defense was the main concern for this weapon and its reliability. (Having fun putting holes in paper and training with steel up close was a close second.)

I live in the suburbs, the neighbors homes are relatively close by. So Over penetration was definitely a concern and nine mill with hollowpoints seemed to be a reasonable compromise with regards to that. That, and the advice of several seemingly well respected Youtubers, led me to believe/decide on a relatively inexpensive, supposedly capable, PD/HD weapon which incorporated the ammo and magazines I was already stockpiling. (Glock mags).

-update-
That second set screw is TOTALLY F’d! F’ing thing sat all night with solvent in the bolt catch’s screw hole. Still torquing the CRAP out of that 1/16th allen without budging. Something is definitely busted. I imagine it will likely require tapping/drilling to remove if they can’t remove the bolt catch & LRBHO some other way! 🤬🤬🤬. 😭

If you didn’t care to check the tut link,.. I found the schematic of the LRBHO parts for the FM9. Im guessing adding a second set screw as a “Stop” was to keep it from continually backing out. 🤷🤦👍🏻

[BWT]

I will say ballistically… I’d rather have a 5.56 in my neighborhood than a 9mm.

The 5.56x45 will fragment more easily (I use Sierra TMK 77 gr in my home defense AR). A JHP will expand and slow for that reason but it’s staying contiguous as a projectile.

I’d be interested to see what MK 262 would do when it hits dry wall versus a pick your flavor 9mm.

ETA:

https://youtu.be/j3BlRPtCj2E?si=NQjl1FcqMvP6NNHH