Almost always can be found on the X-rayAlpha instagram.Originally Posted by Paul Blackburn
Almost always can be found on the X-rayAlpha instagram.
I once used a modified version of Restons 5 shot Cadence drill with a recruit class who were shooting painfully slow even at close ranges. Made clear that it was not a 'Tactical Engagement Strategy', just an exercise to help prove something to them. Had them shoot to increasingly faster 'cadence' to show them that they were still hitting the target. Then accelerated it even more with shorter par times on turning targets. Had them shoot until the wheels started coming off, then had them analyze what was happening with their instructors. That was on Day 2 of the 80 range block. That class all passed the 4 required tests like they were nothing, and had no test jitters. We had spent the instructional time training to performance levels way beyond what the tests required.
Before the technicalities of the shot comes the decision to shoot or not to shoot. With your attention buried in the front sight, could you miss the sight of his hands up and empty? I think that's possible.
I was in a training not too long ago where they talked about a human’s ability to process what we see. Someone smarter than me determined that is roughly a quarter of a second. The implication being that having splits faster than that is a liability. I want to say the information had come from JSOC or HRT but can’t swear to it.
Regarding a threat focus, I presume they were discussing irons since we should have a threat focus with red dots. Frank Proctor was teaching that as long as 10 years ago. I had just switched to Tijicon HD’s with the orange fronts which made it much easier to do. The students with older style irons had more trouble with a threat/target focus.
Any pistol I have that uses irons and no red dot has a bright orange front now.
0.25 second response to visual stimuli is the typical number thrown around. Many folks can have a sub-0.2 second response to visual stimuli, but these are for very simple stimulis and responses, much less complex than cues that lend to the decision making needed to decide if a target has changed from a shoot to a no-shoot, and probably not consistently able to be done on demand. 0.15 second simple response to a visual stimuli is typically seen as the top end of possible human performance (auditory and haptic stimuli typically engender a faster response time than visual). Slightly faster response times have been claimed, but they should be seen as extreme outliers.
I'll note that the phrase "a human’s ability to process what we see" isn't necessarily the best phrasing, there are studies that show that we can definitely visually perceive things much faster than 250 ms, possibly as fast as 13 ms, but that is not the same as being able to react in that amount of time, rather the brain is able to retain information from an image that we see for that short a period of time.
I'd like to think this applies rather aptly to Target Focused Shooting.
I am not in anyway a tactician, just a competitive shooter with quantifiable skills.
A month or so ago I competed in a legit "steel challenge type" event for prizes.
I add the prize part to better define the difference between local dirt shoot and an
event where those there really want to win.
I used this basic 1911 in 45acp without sights to take 2nd in Iron Sight and 4th over all against dot guns.
Keep in mind I was NOT shooting against super steel masters, but USPSA masters were in competition.
Without sights, I have to focus on...trigger more than sights and focus more on target than sights and must
employ excellent grip mechanics to accomplish the task at hand.
Oh for the record, I much prefer using sights, I just use this tool on occasion to "walk the talk" as it were.
Best,
PK
Guns are just machines and without you they can do no harm, nor any good
Is this a subject Nyeti used to post about?
I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
The lunatics are running the asylum
Great post. I had my dot go out at a recent match, and it went pretty well. I'm going to do more "dot off" practice. I think there's value in it.
I'd like to think this applies rather aptly to Target Focused Shooting.
I am not in anyway a tactician, just a competitive shooter with quantifiable skills.
A month or so ago I competed in a legit "steel challenge type" event for prizes.
I add the prize part to better define the difference between local dirt shoot and an
event where those there really want to win.
I used this basic 1911 in 45acp without sights to take 2nd in Iron Sight and 4th over all against dot guns.
Keep in mind I was NOT shooting against super steel masters, but USPSA masters were in competition.
Without sights, I have to focus on...trigger more than sights and focus more on target than sights and must
employ excellent grip mechanics to accomplish the task at hand.
Oh for the record, I much prefer using sights, I just use this tool on occasion to "walk the talk" as it were.
Best,
PK
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
That 0.25s as it relates to splits is kind of a red herring.
Because many, many people can't process anywhere nearly that fast and if they're not prepared to process a result... it can take many seconds to process.
So really, some people shouldn't split faster than 1 second.
Have you ever seen someone shoot to slide lock and have no ability to process what's happening? They keep trying to press the trigger because they weren't expecting the slide lock and didn't recognize nor process it.
Regarding splits, if someone didn't realize that a living target moves (typically downwards) when shot then even a 0.25 split might be faster than the ability to process the unexpected (to them).
It's the difference between an animal jumping out from the side of the highway reaction time and driving towards a stale green light while covering your brake.
If someone is charging you with a knife from 7 yards straight on, splitting faster than 25 might be a good idea knowing that you might have to track it downwards.
If someone is running across a highway 20 yards from you... you probably shouldn't even be thinking of splits at all, IMO.
As an aside, the only role for sub-20 splits in real life (IMO) is if the threat is so large and close that you know you have >0.50s of time / target / tracking to get two shots off.
The decision making came about clearing both shots together.
Using physics, if a body falls from standstill for 0.2 seconds, it can travel ~8 inches in that time frame. So you'd better be close and be prepared to track it downwards. But if you had something super close and aimed >20 inches from the border... it could be reasonable if you had the ability to gauge that, like someone charging you and getting closer.
Last edited by JCN; 10-26-2023 at 07:32 AM.
I've heard this argument stated several times over the years in my organization and from one of these units mentioned, and I wholeheartedly disagree with the premise of it. The argument I've heard is typically along the lines of, "if the person is no longer a threat, it may take you longer than your split times to realize it and stop shooting."
First, there is no legal precedent that would punish you for having 1-2 extra rounds fired if the justification to shoot changes. If someone presents a legal justification for use of deadly force, than a .25-.5 reaction on the back end of that where they drop the weapon, fall to the ground, etc after you've already fired multiple rounds at them, is not going to change your legal justification to have used deadly force in the first place.
Second, typically when this is taught, it's usually to slow down faster/better shooters to bring them more in line with cadence shooting that is attainable by mediocre to average shooters. I believe officers should shoot at a pace they can control the gun and that their vision dictates, based on environmental factors like target distance/difficulty, ambient lighting, etc. What I can see and process at .13-.15 splits is a lot different than an average SWAT officer in my organization at .25-.30 splits.
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