Approved Firearm Modifications

[babypanther]

Recently admin has began talking about not allowing any modifications to issued duty pistols (G47’s) other than mounting department issued PMO’s (holosun EPS’s).

There are more than a few magwells, magazine base pads, triggers, and kagwerks slide releases out there as of right now, and it sounds like this policy would eliminate those things.

We have been reasonable IMO to this point, such as allowing triggers that do not disable factory safeties, insisting on certified Glock armorers installing the parts, etc.

Are there any programs out there or guys that have navigated through these issues with some success? If admin says no, no means no, but there wasn't any discussion with us over in the Training Unit beforehand. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I know there is a ton of experience and knowledge here. Thanks


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[cpd2110]

We allow some modification but it has to be approved by the firearms staff. I used to allow quit a bit of modification, too much in fact. We saw failures in training and that was enough to scale back to avoid the same thing happening in a real event. I think triggers are something to leave alone in my opinion. One thing that has worked well for us is having our SWAT/Firearms instructors test items. They are on the range monthly and it has proven to find issues. As an example, we as a group tested PMO's for a year. During the monthly range sessions issues were found with open emitters and we now only allow closed emitters. I would suggest something like that as a first step to getting an item approved.

[HCM]

Recently admin has began talking about not allowing any modifications to issued duty pistols (G47’s) other than mounting department issued PMO’s (holosun EPS’s).

There are more than a few magwells, magazine base pads, triggers, and kagwerks slide releases out there as of right now, and it sounds like this policy would eliminate those things.

We have been reasonable IMO to this point, such as allowing triggers that do not disable factory safeties, insisting on certified Glock armorers installing the parts, etc.

Are there any programs out there or guys that have navigated through these issues with some success? If admin says no, no means no, but there wasn't any discussion with us over in the Training Unit beforehand. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I know there is a ton of experience and knowledge here. Thanks


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Fed agency with 14ish K sworn

On issued guns we only allow pre-cut grip tape such as Talon grips.

On agency approved POWs we allow most factory / OEM optional parts such as mag wells, straight triggers, sights etc.

FBI only allows pre-cut grip tape.

[jnc36rcpd]

My former department mandated that only agency armorers work on agency weapons. We never found any need or had a request to change weapon parts. We turned a blind eye toward tape or slip on grips for pistols. Officers could add optics or upgrade weapon lights on long guns.

I will remark that one officer attempted to qualify with his issue .40 226 for an approved off-duty security job. Someone from the security firm or at the qualification was able to get the weapon functional. There seemed more concern that an unauthorized person had worked on an agency firearm than that we had sent an armorer had given a non-functional firearm to a brother officer. But I digress...

First, there should be conversation between the Firearms Training Unit and command staff about why the instructors were not consulted on proposed policy changes. I'd consider asking command staff what PERF or IACP recommend about making policy changes without consulting the subject matter experts who are also "stakeholders".

Secondly, if a policy on modifications does not exist, I'd recommend one that requires firearms training unit approval or even installation.

Lastly, if your administration insists on "cracking down" or "putting an end to this nonsense", I'd suggest a recommendation for a finite number of modifications with brand names and model numbers in the policy.

[psalms144.1]

My former agency mandated no modification to issued pistols except Hogue "handall" grip sleeves. For POWs, our policy was "no competition modifications" which prohibited mag wells, optics, most trigger work, etc. WMLs were always in flux - one policy update they were OK with no restrictions, then they were OK only with "training" (no specification of the type, duration, or standards of said training), another update prohibited them.

My buddy's federal agency allows no modification to issued guns, and personal weapons must be internally stock. No mention of magwells, optics, lights, etc.

[jnc36rcpd]

Pistol-mounted lights were a contentious issue. They were optional at first. A later firearms training coordinator decided to mandate them about the same time as we discovered our newly issued FNS-9's were unreliable with lights. After FN sorted out that issue, they became mandatory again. My current understanding is that the now issue Glock 17's and 19's must have a TLR-7 on or off duty. (I assume the sole Glock 26, issued to the "chief", is probably excluded because he's the "chief".)

[FNFAN]

State agency of about 300 folks. Issued G23's. Grip tape or factory backstraps allowed. Issued with factory night sights and the only option is the High Viz tritium fiber sights with no other mods allowed. Saw probably 3 out of the 300 using weapon lights with no agency training on their use. Great firearms program with monthly range day. 2 of those were qualification courses, 1 night/low light, 1 building search and 1 annual armoring day with the rest training oriented with a mixture of retention shooting, longer distance shooting, plate racks and steel targets used. Rumor says they're going to G45's with optics and weapon lights.

[UNM1136]

State level (not really) agency, 45+ sworn depending on who you count.

I originally was taught that absent specific policies mods that increase reliability, shootability, and accuracy, in that order were GTG.

I tried to carry that to my new agency when I was advising on all things firearms and helping write policy. Was pretty successful, for a long time. No longer.

Was replaced as Head of Firearms by someone who admittedly had more experience and training. While he was on probation...as a patrol officer.

Now we are enforcing regs from his old agency, at his whim, despite the fact NOTHING in our SOPs support what he wants to do, and he abdicated the Head of Fiirearms position to my current boss, who is also letting 25 years of his old agency regs make him enforce them here, despite ZERO SOP support.

Things like mods, trigger pull weight, lasers, optics, scores required to carry Privately Owned Duty Authorized firearms. Shortcuts on the State mandated qual course...I am only hanging on, eating popcorn...🍿

pat

[HCM]

State level (not really) agency, 45+ sworn depending on who you count.

I originally was taught that absent specific policies mods that increase reliability, shootability, and accuracy, in that order were GTG.

I tried to carry that to my new agency when I was advising on all things firearms and helping write policy. Was pretty successful, for a long time. No longer.

Was replaced as Head of Firearms by someone who admittedly had more experience and training. While he was on probation...as a patrol officer.

Now we are enforcing regs from his old agency, at his whim, despite the fact NOTHING in our SOPs support what he wants to do, and he abdicated the Head of Fiirearms position to my current boss, who is also letting 25 years of his old agency regs make him enforce them here, despite ZERO SOP support.

Things like mods, trigger pull weight, lasers, optics, scores required to carry Privately Owned Duty Authorized firearms. Shortcuts on the State mandated qual course...I am only hanging on, eating popcorn...🍿

pat

If it’s not on paper it didn’t happen.

[BK14]

Thanks to some local bad decisions that made headlines, my agency has become strict on modifications. For department guns, no modifications besides grip tape, sights, optics.

Personal guns have mostly the same, but can be stippled. No internal modifications. Unless it’s factory, then it’s okay. Magwell on a Glock? You can’t strip mags and you’ll die. Magwell on an sig or smith? As long as it’s factory somehow you’re fine.

A good person to reference is Bill Blowers. There’s a whole primary and secondary modcast where he speaks extensively about modifying duty weapons. Probably early 2020-2021 timeframe?