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Thread: 308 semi s

  1. #21
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    Jun 2014
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    Minnesota
    I've gone through most of the 308 "battle rifles" available in the US at one point or another...M1A, PTR91/G3, FN SCAR, FN FALs (lots of those), AR10...I'm sure there's a few that I've forgotten about

    If I had to pick up and bail for whatever reason, the SCAR would be coming with - about the only thing I haven't done to it is SBRed it and put on a short barrel...the 16" looks kind of wonky on it, but it works. It's light, low recoil for the caliber, nice long top rail, ergonomics are fine, etc. Downside is it's not super suppressor-friendly for civvies (FN will disavow the gun if it thinks you've shot it suppressed and damaged it); there's some aftermarket gas plugs to deal with it and you can replace gas jets in it to adjust how it acts yourself, but it's not intuitive. Front rail space is a bit limited on the right/left/bottom. There's aftermarket rail sections that bolt onto the front of the rifle for things like lasers and lights...one of these days I should pick one of those up. The rails on the main body are also cheese graters, though I think you can replace them now with M-LOK sections from some vendors...again, I should probably actually look into that. In the mean time I'm running PMM rail delete panels instead. Much more svelte.

    My FALs are fine and great and would probably be a 3rd. Like the M1A or G3/HK91/PTR91 clones though, they suck for mounting optics on. Easier to clean than the G3/HK91 clones though, as well as the M1A, or AR10.

    The AR10s are pretty ergonomically familiar to everyone...I have a pre-built Aero M5E1 18" upper (the E1 in a nutshell moves the handguard mounting interface off of the barrel nut, and onto the upper itself - true free-floating...how important/better it is than having a handguard on the barrel nut is probably incrementally better if at all, but *shrug*) that seems to do ok with factory 308 both accuracy and precision wise. It's got a Rubber City Armory AR308 BCG in it, I removed the factory gas block and installed an adjustable one for shooting suppressed, built a lower out with a LaRue Trigger and most of an Aero parts kit, a fixed A2 stock, etc. So far mine has been %100 reliable though I haven't really had a chance to tune the gas block for both suppressed and unsuppressed fire yet. Probably a grand or so into it, before optics and muzzle devices.

    The downside to an AR10...there's at least 3 different competing standards for any one part. If you build your own, you need to make sure you have the right receiver extension, buffer, bolt, bolt carrier, barrel, upper receiver, lower receiver, gas block, gas tube, barrel nut, barrel, magazine...even the small parts can differ depending on the pattern. If you buy a pre-built it'll be a lot easier...but only if you never touch it. The Sig 716 for example is a great rifle; by all accounts it's fantastic. UNTIL you decide you want to change parts on it, or put on an adjustable gas block, for example. Sig went their own way with a lot of parts so there's not a whole lot of commonality between their product and anything else on the market. If you never want to change anything about it and can live with how it functions out of the box with a can on it (if it functions at all), then great, you're all set. Otherwise...well, good luck

    If you want to buy one that can do everything? My vote would be a SCAR, or an AR10. The AR10 may be a little trickier but it's infinitely customizable if you have the time/money or are looking for something that can do anything, or hyper-specialize into doing only one thing but doing it really well. The SCAR's strength is that it can do everything reasonably well...but there's not a whole lot of customization past that; you're not turning one into something super accurate, for example. It's just not in it's DNA.

    Edit - I wouldn't bother with an M1A unless you don't like money; it does nothing well. I'd take an HK91 over that, or a FAL, any day. The HK91 can be had for a grand or less and mags are dirt cheap; they shoot really well and can be reasonably battle rifle accurate. They suck for mounting glass on, but they're historically really reliable and frankly pretty fun to shoot. FALs are great, but mags are getting expensive and the days of $99 kits and $300 builds at a gunsmith are long gone. Good luck getting into one for less than 2 grand (it's technically possible, I guess, but not likely) and DSA has been known to have some parts issues with their domestically produced guns; breakages, etc. They're also not going to be glassed easily. The adjustable gas system is ok, but it's pretty much set it and forget it...you're not going to do a whole lot of tuning with it. The HK91 and FAL are also not really super friendly to suppress if that's your thing as well. They (DSA) do make suppressor gas plugs for FALs, but..I took the muzzle device off of one of my FALs to see if I could suppress it and the (factory surplus) bore was off-centered enough to make it a no-go for putting a can on. Oh well.
    Last edited by Evil_Ed; 10-05-2023 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by rd62 View Post
    Is the SOCOM stupid loud? It definitely seems handy.
    I've literally had it for a couple of weeks, so I haven't got it to the range yet. I suspect it'll have a full Luciano Pavaratti voice though.

    My national match is a pussy cat to shoot, just heavy.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigghoss View Post
    I currently own 4 semi-auto .308 rifles. A rebarreled M1 Garand, a Springfield Scout Squad(M14), a PTR-91 (G3 clone), and an Aero Precision M5 (AR10). I also used to have a Saiga .308. I don't think any of them ever gave me a lick of trouble. I need to get an FAL one of these days. Obviously an AR10 is going to be easiest to customize and be the most adaptable to whatever you want to do with it but there is enough aftermarket support you could force any of them to do what you want within reason.

    Might as well post a pic. The Scout Squad has changed a bit. I'm trying to make it look somthing like Randy Shughart's M14.

    Attachment 110198
    Is that an Aimpoint on the Scout Squad? How do you like it? I stole a PRO off an AR I don't shoot much, took the riser out of the mount and put it on my SOCOM. Not sure if I'm going to like it or not, was hoping for it to be a tad lower.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    My national match is a pussy cat to shoot, just heavy.
    I suspect those two things are related.

    I've thought the Socom would be a fun brush gun since they were released.

    If it's not teeth rattling and a flame thrower my lust may continue.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by rd62 View Post
    I suspect those two things are related.

    I've thought the Socom would be a fun brush gun since they were released.

    If it's not teeth rattling and a flame thrower my lust may continue.
    They are definitely related! I get a chuckle when I hear all the younger folks, who probably only have time behind AR15s talking about how much recoil .308/7.62 auto rifles have. M1A and Garands are uber soft shooting compared to bolt guns.

    The noise doesn't concern me, I wear my Sordins when hunting. I have too much hearing loss now not to wear them and as a bonus I can hear brush breaking from a long ways off that I totally miss when not wearing them. I consider them a mandatory part of my gear now.

  6. #26
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mountain West
    Having owned a Socom16 and owning a 16” AR10 with the FSC Brake (the same as on the SCAR17) there is just no getting around the fact that braked 16 inch .308s are STUPID LOUD!!! Being behind the gun isn’t that bad though.
    Last edited by Suvorov; 10-05-2023 at 03:45 PM.

  7. #27
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    Lexington, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    They are definitely related! I get a chuckle when I hear all the younger folks, who probably only have time behind AR15s talking about how much recoil .308/7.62 auto rifles have. M1A and Garands are uber soft shooting compared to bolt guns.

    The noise doesn't concern me, I wear my Sordins when hunting. I have too much hearing loss now not to wear them and as a bonus I can hear brush breaking from a long ways off that I totally miss when not wearing them. I consider them a mandatory part of my gear now.
    I'm picking up some hunting hearing protection for that very reason.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter Bigghoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    Is that an Aimpoint on the Scout Squad? How do you like it? I stole a PRO off an AR I don't shoot much, took the riser out of the mount and put it on my SOCOM. Not sure if I'm going to like it or not, was hoping for it to be a tad lower.
    Yes. I can't remember if it's the ACO or PRO. I grabbed a low 30mm Vortex ring off Amazon to stick on the scout rail. Later I got a Sadlak scope mount and moved the Aimpoint back to that, only for asthetic reasons. I had the Aimpoint as far back as I could go on the factory scout rail and it works perfectly fine. The Vortex ring I used to mount it is too low to use with lens covers and taking the factory covers off is really hard so I just grabbed the model that didn't come with them since I had one of each laying around.

    Here's how it looks at the moment. I might grab an Aimpoint 9000 to look closer to the Shughart rifle.
    Name:  Shughart.jpg
Views: 535
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
    Because buying cool, interesting guns I don't need isn't a decision... it's a lifestyle...

  9. #29
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    Any legal information I may post is general information, and is not legal advice. Such information may or may not apply to your specific situation. I am not your attorney unless an attorney-client relationship is separately and privately established.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Ed View Post
    I've gone through most of the 308 "battle rifles" available in the US at one point or another...M1A, PTR91/G3, FN SCAR, FN FALs (lots of those), AR10...I'm sure there's a few that I've forgotten about

    If I had to pick up and bail for whatever reason, the SCAR would be coming with - about the only thing I haven't done to it is SBRed it and put on a short barrel...the 16" looks kind of wonky on it, but it works. It's light, low recoil for the caliber, nice long top rail, ergonomics are fine, etc. Downside is it's not super suppressor-friendly for civvies (FN will disavow the gun if it thinks you've shot it suppressed and damaged it); there's some aftermarket gas plugs to deal with it and you can replace gas jets in it to adjust how it acts yourself, but it's not intuitive. Front rail space is a bit limited on the right/left/bottom. There's aftermarket rail sections that bolt onto the front of the rifle for things like lasers and lights...one of these days I should pick one of those up. The rails on the main body are also cheese graters, though I think you can replace them now with M-LOK sections from some vendors...again, I should probably actually look into that. In the mean time I'm running PMM rail delete panels instead. Much more svelte.

    My FALs are fine and great and would probably be a 3rd. Like the M1A or G3/HK91/PTR91 clones though, they suck for mounting optics on. Easier to clean than the G3/HK91 clones though, as well as the M1A, or AR10.

    The AR10s are pretty ergonomically familiar to everyone...I have a pre-built Aero M5E1 18" upper (the E1 in a nutshell moves the handguard mounting interface off of the barrel nut, and onto the upper itself - true free-floating...how important/better it is than having a handguard on the barrel nut is probably incrementally better if at all, but *shrug*) that seems to do ok with factory 308 both accuracy and precision wise. It's got a Rubber City Armory AR308 BCG in it, I removed the factory gas block and installed an adjustable one for shooting suppressed, built a lower out with a LaRue Trigger and most of an Aero parts kit, a fixed A2 stock, etc. So far mine has been %100 reliable though I haven't really had a chance to tune the gas block for both suppressed and unsuppressed fire yet. Probably a grand or so into it, before optics and muzzle devices.

    The downside to an AR10...there's at least 3 different competing standards for any one part. If you build your own, you need to make sure you have the right receiver extension, buffer, bolt, bolt carrier, barrel, upper receiver, lower receiver, gas block, gas tube, barrel nut, barrel, magazine...even the small parts can differ depending on the pattern. If you buy a pre-built it'll be a lot easier...but only if you never touch it. The Sig 716 for example is a great rifle; by all accounts it's fantastic. UNTIL you decide you want to change parts on it, or put on an adjustable gas block, for example. Sig went their own way with a lot of parts so there's not a whole lot of commonality between their product and anything else on the market. If you never want to change anything about it and can live with how it functions out of the box with a can on it (if it functions at all), then great, you're all set. Otherwise...well, good luck

    If you want to buy one that can do everything? My vote would be a SCAR, or an AR10. The AR10 may be a little trickier but it's infinitely customizable if you have the time/money or are looking for something that can do anything, or hyper-specialize into doing only one thing but doing it really well. The SCAR's strength is that it can do everything reasonably well...but there's not a whole lot of customization past that; you're not turning one into something super accurate, for example. It's just not in it's DNA.

    Edit - I wouldn't bother with an M1A unless you don't like money; it does nothing well. I'd take an HK91 over that, or a FAL, any day. The HK91 can be had for a grand or less and mags are dirt cheap; they shoot really well and can be reasonably battle rifle accurate. They suck for mounting glass on, but they're historically really reliable and frankly pretty fun to shoot. FALs are great, but mags are getting expensive and the days of $99 kits and $300 builds at a gunsmith are long gone. Good luck getting into one for less than 2 grand (it's technically possible, I guess, but not likely) and DSA has been known to have some parts issues with their domestically produced guns; breakages, etc. They're also not going to be glassed easily. The adjustable gas system is ok, but it's pretty much set it and forget it...you're not going to do a whole lot of tuning with it. The HK91 and FAL are also not really super friendly to suppress if that's your thing as well. They (DSA) do make suppressor gas plugs for FALs, but..I took the muzzle device off of one of my FALs to see if I could suppress it and the (factory surplus) bore was off-centered enough to make it a no-go for putting a can on. Oh well.

    Of all of those, which would you say is the best for working with a suppressor?

    Thanks

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