PF Hive Mind form of Opinions! I know ya'll can be bashful...

[CleverNickname]

Because the majority of the “gun community” is not PF material, and will destroy everything in sight if left unsupervised, up to and including other shooters or themselves.

If I ever opened a gun range, it would be membership-only for this reason. Allow the general public in for matches or classes (i.e. where there's someone supervising), but restrict unsupervised access to members. I think a membership requirement itself would weed out some of the bad apples from even applying in the first place. Then add in an access-card system for members so that you know who accessed the range and when they did, a robust security camera system so that you have a record of what people are doing, and a required class for membership where a prospective member would have to demonstrate they can safely operate and control a firearm, draw from a holster, etc. and I'm guessing (hoping?) that a lot of these problems wouldn't ever exhibit themselves.

[BaiHu]

I worked on ranges for several years after I got out of the Army but it’s been so long that most of what I have to add will be dated at best.

Start off on the right foot. Hire a good attorney to help set up the company, to include drafting any agreement for people who use the range like third-party trainers, etc. Determine your insurance liability limits from this. Also have your attorney draft the releases that shooters have to sign before they can use the range. One guy worked for wrote his own; an attorney that I had review it later said that it actually increased the owner’s liability.

Visit every range within a 2-hour drive. See what they offer, then find a gap in the offerings and fill it. I think a solid package would include
•50-foot indoor range. 25 yards is nice but the larger footprint limits possible sites and exponentially increases your needs for air-handling adn other safety equipment.
•100% CCTV coverage with recording capability 24/7.
•Not sure who has the best backstop systems these days but this will determine what can be fired on your range. Also, lead abatement was the bane of every range I ever worked on. Have a plan in place for lead recovery and disposal before you open the doors.
•Find out what’s going on with the New Jersey equivalent of the EPA. Any time you deal with lead, you WILL attract their attention. Develop lead abatement plans in the shooting area and a testing plan for your employees. One range I worked on required me to have blood drawn and tested monthly.
•The lead abatement business is full of scam artists. The New Jersey National Guard has a bunch of indoor ranges, and the state Occupational Health Nurse is in charge of medical surveillance for them. Get to know this person and ask them questions. They contract out their environmental stuff and they know who’s trustworthy. Do the same with the National Guard Occupational Health nurses in surrounding states.
•15-20 public lanes. Your range master booth should face this range. The RM’s job is to maintain safety, not to run the register, sell stuff, rent guns, etc. The RM should be firm but not a jerk. Too many of them think they're still at Ft. Benning and can yell at people with impunity. They can't.
•5-10 member lanes. Keep these separate (as in not visible) from public lanes. This lets members shoot in low light, draw from the holster, shoot on the move, etc., without the unwashed masses getting bad ideas. Membership criteria should include training either from your in-house people or trusted third parties because members will get less oversight than the public.
•Members will come to hate you if you sell their lanes for special events more than 1-2 times per year. The exception is letting local law enforcement use these lanes, which helps protect you from getting shut down by anti-gunners. Also encourage every member of your local police department to become 100% familiar with your entire layout in case they have to respond to a burglary. Same for the fire department in case of fire.
•Strong rental program. Don’t rent anything that you don’t also sell.
•Pro shop where you can sell holsters, ammo, books, etc.


Okie John

Thanks! This was more than I was expecting. Those are great details. Action Targets seems to be the bees knees right now.

Among other things, my ideal range would:

* Be outdoors.
* Have 25 or more 25yd x 50yd pistol bays. Enough to where a national-level pistol match could be held there. Enough to where you likely wouldn't have to wait to get a bay on a weekend afternoon. No restrictions on target placement outside of what a USPSA or IDPA match would prohibit. Range-provided target stands, bring your own wood. No restrictions on rapid fire, drawing from a holster, or anything like that.
* Have concrete pads with shade and benches/tables at the front of each bay.
* Have lighting for evening/night shooting.
* Have something other than dirt as the bay surface. Dirt turns to mud. Plan for adequate drainage to limit standing water.
* Have paved parking and paved roads to each range and bay. Again, no mud please.
* Have permanent bathrooms (vs. porta-potties).
* Have known-distance rifle ranges with target pits and berms situated such that shooters can safely go to the pits to change their targets without needing to call a cold range. I hate spending seemingly half my time shooting rifles waiting for some dude to get back from changing his target.
* Have an unknown-distance rifle range with steel, and move the steel around every week or so.
* Probably have skeet and trap and archery and stuff like that I guess because while that's not really my bag I realize that it's all pretty popular.

What would you have the bays surface be?
What if you had 50 yds indoor that was 10-15 bays wide? Would that accomplish most of your dreams for pistol level shooting, classes, competition? I don't really have time to compete, so I haven't been to a match since 2012 I think.

Thanks again guys, this is really helpful as I'm getting lots of feedback I haven't considered.

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[mmc45414]

Indoor ranges are the only option for many people who just don’t have access to acreage, whether that’s a private range, public range or private property.

A lot of this has to do with the local terrain. This area was scraped flat by the glaciers and it is great for farming.

The nearby indoor range is one of the best I have ever visited, and even has a 100yd underground rifle range that extends under the parking lot.
https://vra-ohio.com/

OTOH, the club I am in is on the top of a hill with all of the surrounding area also being flat, and they seem to be perpetually hauling in more dirt.
https://miamisburgsportsmen39sclub.w...g/MSC-Property

[Borderland]

Destroying everything in sight even at a private range will happen. It happened at my range. The e-board finally instituted a mandatory course with a live fire qual for anyone using the pistol range. We have bays for action shooters but those are managed by the clubs who use the facility.

There were so many rounds going over, around and under the bullet traps at 15 and 25 yds. the pistol range is now closed to members who can't qualify. I'm sure some rounds were leaving the range property into residential housing. I saw a bullet hole in one of the tables a few days ago.

I would think the price of insurance for a range might be the biggest expense. Dealers here are going out of business because the state just made it possible to be sued for selling a firearm used in a crime. So insurance rates change.

[CleverNickname]

What would you have the bays surface be?
What if you had 50 yds indoor that was 10-15 bays wide? Would that accomplish most of your dreams for pistol level shooting, classes, competition? I don't really have time to compete, so I haven't been to a match since 2012 I think.

Depends on the range location. Grass would be OK as long as it was thick enough to not wear down into dirt/mud. If not then gravel I guess? Grading the bay surface so that it's angled and water drains properly is important no matter the material.

What if you had 50 yds indoor that was 10-15 bays wide? Would that accomplish most of your dreams for pistol level shooting, classes, competition? I don't really have time to compete, so I haven't been to a match since 2012 I think.

What do you mean by 10-15 "bays"? Do you mean lanes? I want a place where I can move and shoot at multiple targets. I don't want to stand in one place and shoot at the one target I can move back and forth on a target carrier. But I realize that an indoor shooting range like that fits the requirements for a lot of shooters, and that's fine.

I'm sure you could make an indoor range with 10-15 25x50 yard bays, but the building would be huge, contruction costs ridiculous and operational costs outrageous. A big range like that has to be outdoors.

[BaiHu]

Depends on the range location. Grass would be OK as long as it was thick enough to not wear down into dirt/mud. If not then gravel I guess? Grading the bay surface so that it's angled and water drains properly is important no matter the material.


What do you mean by 10-15 "bays"? Do you mean lanes? I want a place where I can move and shoot at multiple targets. I don't want to stand in one place and shoot at the one target I can move back and forth on a target carrier. But I realize that an indoor shooting range like that fits the requirements for a lot of shooters, and that's fine.

I'm sure you could make an indoor range with 10-15 25x50 yard bays, but the building would be huge, contruction costs ridiculous and operational costs outrageous. A big range like that has to be outdoors.

I meant 10-15 ports that would be about 10-15 yards wide with a 50 yd max distance.

I definitely agree with gravel, that makes sense. Thanks!

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[Sig_Fiend]

• 100% CCTV coverage with recording capability 24/7.

To expand on this, go with 100% wired cameras (PoE cameras; power over ethernet), no WiFi. Any good security consulting company will understand this and offer solutions for it. Less risk of anyone accessing the cams remotely and using them for nefarious purposes. If it's an outdoor range, true, there'd be the added hassle of having to bury conduit with Cat6 cable run to cameras not attached to a building/range office, but it's worth the trouble for the added security IMO.

Also, if it was me, I might even look at some of the more advanced video surveillance systems that have various AI capabilities. While it can get expensive quick and might be overkill, it can unlock some cool capabilities. Things like being able to define zones, paths, thresholds, etc. If crossed, that can trip alarms, send notifications, or whatever else you need. It can potentially help highlight unusual behavior, people lingering where they shouldn't, capturing license plates plus car makes and models, capturing profile pictures, all sorts of cool things.

[BaiHu]

To expand on this, go with 100% wired cameras (PoE cameras; power over ethernet), no WiFi. Any good security consulting company will understand this and offer solutions for it. Less risk of anyone accessing the cams remotely and using them for nefarious purposes. If it's an outdoor range, true, there'd be the added hassle of having to bury conduit with Cat6 cable run to cameras not attached to a building/range office, but it's worth the trouble for the added security IMO.

Also, if it was me, I might even look at some of the more advanced video surveillance systems that have various AI capabilities. While it can get expensive quick and might be overkill, it can unlock some cool capabilities. Things like being able to define zones, paths, thresholds, etc. If crossed, that can trip alarms, send notifications, or whatever else you need. It can potentially help highlight unusual behavior, people lingering where they shouldn't, capturing license plates plus car makes and models, capturing profile pictures, all sorts of cool things.

Very cool. My current business I used wired for that reason, but I'll have to look into all of these cool goodies you've mentioned.
Thanks!

[Hambo]

Been a bit dormant here with budding family and busy business, so forgive me for not annoying ya'll in a good while, but I'm back with a request.

A friend is interested in opening a range in NJ and I said I have JUST the folks to tell you why you shouldn't do it/how you could do it, if you were crazy and connected enough.

That being said, what are your pros/cons of all the places you've been, and don't be afraid to drib..I mean scribble your wet dreams here. Gear over hosting trainers? How many lanes? Max/min of lane size? To VIP or NOT to VIP? Food? etc.

Weapons free!

TIA!

How much money does he have to invest in the project?

[BaiHu]

How much money does he have to invest in the project?

That's part of the discovery process. I think 3-5mm was the thought process, but that could change given location, size, regulations, etc. I'm getting impression that the investor involved is far enough in the "want" corner that they'd be willing to expand their budget.

Btw who knows the best range tech? I mainly see action targets dominating my area.

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