I’m getting out of 357 too. I have a pair of Colts and a Marlin ‘94 in 357.
Too anemic with 38s, too loud with 357s.
IMO, 357 was made obsolete when smokeless 45 Colt came about…
I’m getting out of 357 too. I have a pair of Colts and a Marlin ‘94 in 357.
Too anemic with 38s, too loud with 357s.
IMO, 357 was made obsolete when smokeless 45 Colt came about…
Of course, there was smokeless .45 Colt before the .357 existed.Originally Posted by M2CattleCo
"Everything in life is really simple, provided you don’t know a f—–g thing about it." - Kevin D. Williamson
Yeah, is that not exactly what people want? 135gr bullet spec'd at right at 1000fps from a 2" barrel.
https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammuniti...spx?id=23917GD
Vista publicizes it but I live 20 miles from the factory and have only seen the 357SB on the shelves locally twice since they started building it. Vapor Ammo. I use two different 38/44 loads for my short barrel and 4" barrel 357s. It puts a 158LSWC out of a 2" at 1075fps, and 1152 out of a 3" 357, and 1194fps out of a 4" 66-0. Yeah it's a handload but Buffalo Bore and Underwood build a very similar load.
I shoot 38s 70 % of all my shooting and all the rest, fill the remainder of shooting time.
In Lucky Gunner's tests, it went 1184 fps from a 4" GP100. It's about what I want in a .357 load, but as noted, it's pretty much vaporware.
"Everything in life is really simple, provided you don’t know a f—–g thing about it." - Kevin D. Williamson
I have two or three boxes of the .357 135gr Gold Dot load around... but I have not seen any available, anywhere since before covid. Online or in person. It's got a bit more bark than the .38 +P version, but it's pretty tame for a magnum load.
I do wish I could currently get that bullet as a reloading component. I have not seen the component bullets available, since before covid. For a short while they were available, and I didn't jump on it
The 38 Special +P and 357 Magnum Short Barrel loadings use the same 135 gr. bonded hollow-point bullet (Speer part # 4014) while the Remington Golden Saber uses different 125 gr. bullets for the two cartridges.
Although both approaches appear to work well enough, I don't think the modest increase in velocity from 2 or 3 inch barrel revolvers should necessitate a special reduced-recoil 357 Magnum bullet.
I like knowing that the Speer 135 gr. 357 Magnum Gold Dot will still perform adequately at 38 Special velocity for instance if a long range shot is required.
Winchester could easily load their 130 gr. Ranger Bonded/PDX1 Defender hollow-point bullet to around 1000 fps in a 357 Magnum case for an effective low-recoil option.
I bought a 4" GP100 in October of 2018, and started the process of divesting from 10mm in favor of .357/.38. I've been regularly looking for the Gold Dot short barrel .357 load since about January of 2019 and have never seen it for sale.
ETA: I've had "in stock" alert emails set at a bunch of different retailers since then, and I've never once gotten an email, so I don't think it's Speer did a run and I just missed it.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
I must be lucky. I was able to buy SB .357 last year. I did have to put in for notification from a couple of the usual sources to do so, true, but it’s out there on occasion.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Today was bi-annual CCW renewal range qual day. In California we need to qualify with each handgun we wish to list on our permit, and in this county we're allowed up to six. One more way to make things as difficult as possible, but that's for some other thread.
It's not a terribly difficult qual, basically >90% in the A-zone, of 25 rounds for each. More than a few folks need multiple tries to make that, make it too much harder and lots of folks would never get a permit, some of them I see at the range once a year. Anyway this time I listed the max allowed six, three semi-autos and three revolvers. All three revolvers are 357 Magnum. One of them, a scandium J-frame (M&P 340), will never see anything hotter than 38 despite what S&W's marketing team thought. Usually, including today, it's 38sp 148 HBWC in that one.
The other two revolvers offered an interesting data point because I ran magnum handholds through them even though it's not required for the qual. This was a 125gr JHP load over BE-86, at 10% under Alliant's web site load for that bullet (10% under is the recommended starting point). I haven't chrono'd this load but it should in theory be somewhere in the mid to upper 1100's, so not a very hot load and the goal was to approximate the Speer SBGD load.
From a 3-inch Colt King Cobra (about 28 oz), it was manageable and easy to shoot relatively quickly. The recoil was enough that in the last five rounds I got a little jittery and two of those rounds opened up what had been a pretty good group until then, although it was still good enough for a 100%. POI was just very slightly high right.
Firing a 4.25-inch Python (about 42 oz) right after that felt easy in comparison. The heavier revolver ate the recoil nicely and was about like 9mm +p out of a typical semi-auto. The group was tighter with the Python, and the better (WC) sights had a lot to do with that. It's currently sighted in for 38 158 LSWC, so the 357 load hit a couple inches low.
Takeaways, sample size of one person: For me, today, the Python was easier to shoot accurately, the King Cobra was easier to shoot quickly. Recoil with a light 357 load was definitely there but not too bad with the former, more moderate with the latter. The KC is a long time woods gun for me, the Python is just now vetted to the point that with the WC rear site I may actually carry it sometimes. I'm OK with 357 out of either, even the somewhat hotter Black Hills 140gr Vor-TX copper load that I actually carry in the wilderness, which has previously been tested in both revolvers. Main difference is that I'd only want to shoot a few at a time out of the KC, while it would likely stay fun for a lot longer with the heavier Python... even though I'm overall not as fond of magnum loads as I was in my younger years, and have come to really dislike hot magnum loads.
Comparing the revolvers and the semi-autos: I was more accurate with both HK's and about the same with a G26 gen 3, but the revolvers were more fun to shoot, even with 357. So I'm not done with 357 just yet, at least not in steel-frame revolvers. But yeah, for most range trips it will be 38sp.
Last edited by Salamander; 10-07-2023 at 05:06 PM.
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