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Thread: How Perishable is all this stuff?

  1. #21
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofe954 View Post
    Do you have a link or more info?

    I'm a shitty blue belt. I have taken time off here and there for injuries and I am definitely out of sorts when I go back.

    My gym is a competition gym with near zero emphasis on self defense.
    Sidebar: I think you’d really dig a weekend of IAJJ to tie some things together. JMO.
    ”When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews… it is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.” -Bari Weiss

  2. #22
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
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    I have been touch-and-go with BJJ since my introduction to it in 2004. My personal experience: technical minutia and timing go out the window pretty much immediately; broad-strokes stuff you've trained to unconscious competence seems to hang around.

    On more than one occasion returning to the mat after a hiatus, I have been surprised by my body reflexively doing things that my brain couldn't figure out immediately. As in, "Why the fuck did my leg just do that? Oh wait, that's a _____!" It then takes two minutes of instruction for me to correctly do _____, but the rudiments were still in there.
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost River View Post
    Over the course of multiple decades of carrying a gun for a living, I disarmed more than a couple guys who absolutely thought they were in charge of the situation because they had pulled a handgun out. Before they could even understand what was happening, they did not have control of their handgun anymore, and their heads were (usually) bouncing very hard off the deck, as they became asphalt angels.

    They would universally have a look of "what just happened?" on their faces. They were fortunate as their other option was getting shot. Thinking that "I have a gun, I don't need to know any defensive skills beyond shooting at paper once a month" is not a good plan. Don't be surprised if someone is not at all afraid of you and your gun and will take it from you before you can say "uhoh".

    I am not the smartest guy when it comes to martial arts. I was however a weapons retention instructor, and when it came to dealing with people in the street I follow two simple rules:

    Where the head goes, the body follows.
    and
    You can't fight if you can't breath.

    Those two served me quite well.

    YMMV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    You can't fight if you've been shot in the chest either. YMMV.
    If you comment was getting shot in the chest while attempting a takeaway, the first rule af weapon retention (and requisition) is don't get shot. Seriously, in the systems we taught - primarily Lindell PPCT and some hybrid involving throws - the first steps were usually distract and get offline.

    If you are talking frome the other perspective, shooting the bad guy in the chest, I'd like to mention that many folks are surprised to see the gun aimed at them. Unlike in our fantasy gunfight, very often we are caught unaware, in condition white, in real life.

    My personal belief wa that the best thing I could do for all the officers I helped train was instill the gift of movement in them. I knew no matter how much we talked about situational awareness, most often when someone tried to shoot them during a vehicle stop, for instance, the officer in most cases would be caught unawares. The thing that most likely keeps them safe is not standing and drawing, but moving out of the kill zone ideally while drawing and keeping their vest square into the threat.

    If you are fighting and standing still, you're doing something wrong.
    Adding nothing to the conversation since 2015....

  4. #24
    BJJ tends to be perishable if the mental emphasis by the indiviual practitioner has been on techniques. That is absolutley perishable. I find that happenieng to me a lot where I see someone doing a move, or someone online teaching a technique, and I think "I used to do that all the time but have not for years". And then if I go back and attemot it, it usually is not great, even if at one time it was a go-to move.

    OTOH, the person who looks at this with an eye towards principles and overall physical movements tend to remain. Maybe a tiny bit off in timing, but with a short bit of polish, it is GTG. A case in point was when I had to be off the mats for 3 months with meniscus surgery. When I got back, I was so afraid of forgetting everything, but within a couple of classes, I was hitting moves I had never hit before on guys who were studs. IT all came down to not trying to remember specific techniques, but just moving properly and maintaining principles no matter what.

    This is the entire crux of who is good in jiujitsu early, vs who struggles for years. Technique is borderline irrelevant, but is the martial art version of gear for gun folks - it is the easy thing to glom onto and obsess over.
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  5. #25
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    You can't fight if you've been shot in the chest either. YMMV.
    Yes you can
    On the ragged edge of the world I'll roam,
    And the home of the wolf shall be my home - Robert Service

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Yes you can

    Thanks for posting that.

    A little story from the earlyish days of GWOT. A co-worker had retired from one of the cool guy units and and was working security. He was on a convoy from Bagram to Kabul when his convoy was ambushed. During the gunfight he thought he was having a heart attack, he was in his mid-50s, but after the fight he realized he had taken a 7.62x39 round through his chest.

  7. #27
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    Well known: https://www.police1.com/officer-safe...n%20her%20back.

    The .357 round entered Stacy’s chest, nicked the base of her heart, her diaphragm, liver, intestine, and shattered her spleen before exiting through a tennis ball-size hole in her back. The impact caused her to take one step back, but somehow she maintained a good stance and proper grip of her weapon.

    Stacy described the pain of that bullet traveling through her body: “If you take a javelin, heat it up about 1,000 degrees, shove the thing through your chest, that’s about what it feels like — a real burning sensation.”

    In the moment, she thought to herself, No time for pain right now. I’ll take time to feel it later.

    She sensed the suspect had friends and she was still in danger so she moved cautiously to the back corner of her car and leaned out a bit. She spotted the suspect with weapon in-hand. He fired five more times at her, but the rounds flew over her right shoulder, high.

    Stacy returned fire three more times, all of which hit the suspect. He was out of business. The other “Highland Park Crazies” fled the scene.
    Cloud Yeller of the Boomer Age

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    BJJ tends to be perishable if the mental emphasis by the indiviual practitioner has been on techniques. That is absolutley perishable. I find that happenieng to me a lot where I see someone doing a move, or someone online teaching a technique, and I think "I used to do that all the time but have not for years". And then if I go back and attemot it, it usually is not great, even if at one time it was a go-to move.

    OTOH, the person who looks at this with an eye towards principles and overall physical movements tend to remain. Maybe a tiny bit off in timing, but with a short bit of polish, it is GTG. A case in point was when I had to be off the mats for 3 months with meniscus surgery. When I got back, I was so afraid of forgetting everything, but within a couple of classes, I was hitting moves I had never hit before on guys who were studs. IT all came down to not trying to remember specific techniques, but just moving properly and maintaining principles no matter what.

    This is the entire crux of who is good in jiujitsu early, vs who struggles for years. Technique is borderline irrelevant, but is the martial art version of gear for gun folks - it is the easy thing to glom onto and obsess over.
    As someone who got started in BJJ and went on to have 12 MMA fights, I agree with you.

    The principles and rules (leverage) remain, regardless of time off, fancy new techniques, etc. Additionally, I think those who practiced recreationally for “sport” are going to have a harder time than someone who practiced for years with a “position before submission,” slow grind on the opponent until in a dominant position mindset.

    The easiest attribute to lose is conditioning (but also the quickest to add back on), so in my experience, if the guy was a solid purple belt and is really struggling, it’s likely a lack of conditioning vs. the younger, faster guys on the mat. You have to play to your strength, which is experience. If I can’t overpower you, I know I can weather most people if I remain patient and slowly advance my position as you make small mistakes.

    I see a lot of guys try to out scramble guys half their age and forget that it’s about using leverage to obtain positional dominance.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    So my question is this: Is martial arts skill terribly perishable? Do we lose it as fast as say...a heavy back squat after a few months of inactivity...or is it something like shooting skills where just a few days of dedicated drilling will get you back to your previous mastery? Is it somewhere in between those things?
    If Daniel Coyle is a member here or if somebody else can cite the scientists that study this kind of thing - but at least according to him and The Talent Code - skills and ability will diminish without practice. He goes on to list just about everything from playing music to playing sports -I wouldn't expect BJJ would be any different. FWIW I do BJJ and I'm also a competitive shooter.
    A71593

  10. #30
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwhpfan View Post
    If Daniel Coyle is a member here or if somebody else can cite the scientists that study this kind of thing - but at least according to him and The Talent Code - skills and ability will diminish without practice. He goes on to list just about everything from playing music to playing sports -I wouldn't expect BJJ would be any different. FWIW I do BJJ and I'm also a competitive shooter.
    I can talk about the music aspect of that a bit. At the level I need to maintain to be relevant professionally, I can miss a day of practice. At 2 days off, it will start to show in performance, internally. At 3 days off, I’m in trouble in front of people. That’s at an advanced level of classical music performance, for money.

    Now, that said, I’m pretty sure I could walk away from my instrument for a decade, and still pick it up and make people think I’m amateur/ok by playing a few basics.

    No idea how that relates to BJJ. I can relate it to both shooting and Goju-ryu pretty closely however, having taken well over a decade off from both, and then stepped back in.

    Tangentially, the book that is the pure drop for “the talent code” is “Peak,” by Anders Ericsson. @Cecil Burch turned me on to that.

    Back in my lane now.
    ”When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews… it is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.” -Bari Weiss

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