My mouse gun journey.

[Trooper224]

I'd like to relate my latest firearms transition. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

For my entire shooting life I've carried full size service pistols. Mostly that meant a five-inch all steel 1911, with the Beretta 92 and the S&W 4506 Occupying my time, each for a couple of years at a time. I was never bothered by the weight and big guns worked well with my big hands. Everything was copasetic for well over thirty years.

Now, sadly that bitch known as time has taken one more thing from me. After nearly four decades of military and law enforcement service, with one helicopter crash, rolling a patrol car three times, not to mention hundreds of thousands of rounds down range, martial arts and other abuses from youthful ignorance, the bitch has sent her emissary to torment me: arthritis.

It's been coming on for years, but until this last year it's been more of an irritation than it has been debilitating. However, it reached the point where I was having trouble unscrewing a bottle top, not to mention maintaining a firm grip on a handgun. When I tried to really grip down on a tool, or even my cellphone, my digits would seize up. As for my hips, I couldn't lay on one side for more than an hour without discomfort and I was experiencing routine leg cramps during the night. That duty belt and years of IWB carry had taken their toll. The pain had become more or less constant, especially in my hands.

I was forced to realize it was time to change the hardware. I could live on pain killers, just be constantly miserable, or decide to work smart instead of hard. I chose the latter and it was a bit difficult. If I'm totally honest, part of my ego was wrapped up in the big iron.

I'd tried several of the 9mm compacts like the S&W shield and found them pretty snappy. I also had a couple of .380s in the safe, but they're even worse. Still being in the proof of concept phase, I didn't want to drop money on something I might discard. Consequently, the only option was a 1961 vintage Walther/Manurhin PP in.32acp.



I'd picked it up at a gunshow several years ago, just because it was cool. I'd shot it a couple of times and then put it away. It was accurate, the trigger was nice, pretty nice for this family of pistol but I never really considered it for anything serious, until now. I took it to the range with a more serious focus and immediately noticed a few things. First, it cut the shit out of my hand. I hadn't experienced this during my casual outings. But, when I started working from the holster and trying for speed the blood flowed. It was also less than reliable with certain ammo. I didn't experience any malfunctions with European ammo, such as Fiocchi, Privi Partizan and Noma. But, I did have three stove pipes within three hundred rounds of PMC Bronze.

The remedies for these maladies involved breaking of sharp edges and rounding of corners on the rear of the slide, as well as a spring overhaul. The latter being a wise move on a pistol over sixty years old, as a matter of course. The result has been no more blood and no more malfunctions. I've settled on 73 grain Fiocchi fmj as my carry load. Hollowpoints are useless in something this size, with accuracy and penitration being the sole arbiters of maintaining personal meat sack integrity. The Fiocchi has an even 1000ft per second muzzle velocity out of the PPs four inch barrel (3.9 to be precise). It exceeds the FBIs penitration protocol so it will do its job if I do mine. I've found a couple of handloads that mimic the same performance, so training ammo is nailed down. John Brownings first centerfire cartridge gets a bit spendy off the shelf.

The DA trigger is pretty decent and the SA is very nice. The sights are smallish, but eyesight is something the bitch hasn't touched yet to any great degree. The gun points very well for me and the sights typically come up in line, so no searching for the front sight is neccessary. Accuracy is good. Here's seventeen rounds fired at speed, at ten yards.



I'm still stretching the range out to find out where the demon lives, but I'm already confident it will do for the task. Since I've adopted it my hands are much improved. I've experienced more discomfort typing this post than shooting. I've eliminated IWB carry as the gun's size allows of effective OWB, as well as frequent shoulder holster use. The pain in my hip joints is much reduced and the cramps have ceased. I still have to deal with gear on my belt at work, but the big issues have been mitigated. I don't know if the PP is permanent, or if it's an interim place holder, but it is allowing me to stay in the game.

I'm edging up on sixty and life has stopped giving and has started taking away. I'm sure some of you can relate.

[Wondering Beard]

My name is Bond, Trooper Bond.

;-)


Seriously though, while my arthritis hasn't hit me that hard (yet), I am thinking about the days when it would. That's why I would be happy with G42X if Glock ever thinks about it or settle for a steel K frame loaded with 38 or 32 wadcutters.

[Bruce Cartwright]

Trooper 224:

First, good job figuring this stuff out. As I get older, I suspect that a lifetime of martial arts/shooting heavy recoiling handguns/the Job/car accidents/fights etc will exact their toll. No arthritis yet (knock on wood...) but spending a day shooting more that 200 rounds of 45 hardball is painful.

I think the PP is a neat choice. I have had shooting access to a PPK/s in 22 Long Rifle and love that gun.

That said, there might be another gun to look at. I recently sold a Beretta Model 71 in 22 Long Rifle to a dear friend who coveted mine. They are out of production but worth searching for. Beretta cracked the code on these guns. Think an aluminum framed (16 ounce), single action semiautomatic pistol with a 1911 style thumb safety. I know they also made them in 380 and 32. Small enough to hide like a J frame revolver, but big enough to easily shoot. I have very large hands (2XL glove size) and the Beretta fit exceptionally well. Mine was exceptionally reliable. I was in the process of regulating the sights (the gun shot 8 inches high, and 4 inches left at 25 yards) when I sold it. It grouped into three inches with Federal Auto Match bulk 22 ammo off a bench. Mine also was threaded for suppressor use. I had mine refinished by (Shameless plug for a friend) Stealth Hydrographics in Kalispell Montana. I think the Model 71 would be an outstanding choice for someone who has arthritis/hand strength issues. In fact, I nominate the Beretta Model 71 as the thinking man's PP. All of that said, please don't construe my remarks as a criticism in any way.

Please keep us updated on your progress with the PP. They are very cool little guns.

[luckyman]

FWIW, I finally broke down and ordered this pillow for between my knees and no longer have hip and knee pain when I sleep on my side…

Contour Legacy Leg & Knee Foam... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MFN8FRT...p_mob_ap_share

[BillSWPA]

I am always interested in what works for people with various hand, wrist, or elbow issues. I am 52 and will certainly have to deal with this issue myself at some point, although fortunately not yet. Multiple people in my family as well as friends deal with similar issues. Your experience and whatever else you choose to post will likely help many people keep shooting.

Rex G is also dealing with various hand and wrist issues. He has posted that a Glock 19X is particularly pleasant to shoot. A G45 might also be a good choice for similar reasons: a full size grip combined with reduced reciprocating slide mass.

My wife is particularly recoil sensitive. She has found that a Springfield XD9 is very comfortable to shoot. I have found it very easy to shoot accurately. When we were first married I was a member of a range that provided free rental guns to executive members. I took advantage of access to hose guns to try her out on most of the reasonably common 9mm pistols, a couple of .38 revolvers, a .380 (Colt Mustang), and a .45 1911. The first time she shot an XD9, she put 10 rounds into a tight group at 30 feet, better than she did with anything else.

Perhaps one of these choices can help you stay close to the full size you have always preferred while slowing the onset of more problems?

The best currently available .32 in my opinion is from Kel-Tex. Recoil is really comfortable since it is a tilt barrel design, with no slide bite. The one caveat is to replace the factory 9 lb. recoil springs with Wolff 11 lb. springs.

If you get to try a P365 .380, S&W EZ .380, or Ruger lite rack .380, I would be interested in your impressions.

Ben_G mentioned elsewhere that the Beretta 80X Cheetah 380 is specifically designed with people with hand or wrist issues in mind. Perhaps that could provide a larger .380 option?

[BillSWPA]

FWIW, I finally broke down and ordered this pillow for between my knees and no longer have hip and knee pain when I sleep on my side…

Contour Legacy Leg & Knee Foam... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MFN8FRT...p_mob_ap_share

I have osteoarthritis in my knees and use a knee pillow as well.

[Trooper224]

Trooper 224:

First, good job figuring this stuff out. As I get older, I suspect that a lifetime of martial arts/shooting heavy recoiling handguns/the Job/car accidents/fights etc will exact their toll. No arthritis yet (knock on wood...) but spending a day shooting more that 200 rounds of 45 hardball is painful.

I think the PP is a neat choice. I have had shooting access to a PPK/s in 22 Long Rifle and love that gun.

That said, there might be another gun to look at. I recently sold a Beretta Model 71 in 22 Long Rifle to a dear friend who coveted mine. They are out of production but worth searching for. Beretta cracked the code on these guns. Think an aluminum framed (16 ounce), single action semiautomatic pistol with a 1911 style thumb safety. I know they also made them in 380 and 32. Small enough to hide like a J frame revolver, but big enough to easily shoot. I have very large hands (2XL glove size) and the Beretta fit exceptionally well. Mine was exceptionally reliable. I was in the process of regulating the sights (the gun shot 8 inches high, and 4 inches left at 25 yards) when I sold it. It grouped into three inches with Federal Auto Match bulk 22 ammo off a bench. Mine also was threaded for suppressor use. I had mine refinished by (Shameless plug for a friend) Stealth Hydrographics in Kalispell Montana. I think the Model 71 would be an outstanding choice for someone who has arthritis/hand strength issues. In fact, I nominate the Beretta Model 71 as the thinking man's PP. All of that said, please don't construe my remarks as a criticism in any way.

Please keep us updated on your progress with the PP. They are very cool little guns.

Thanks Bruce.

One of my .380s is a Beretta 70S. I bought it because I think it's one of the sexiest pistols ever made. It's a good shooter with a good trigger, and as a lifelong 1911 user I have no issue with it being single action. But, it does have two issues: the magazines are as rare as hens teeth and quite expensive when you can find them. Then there's the recoil.

The first time I shot it me youngest son was with me. He's a fine, strapping lad in his late twenties. He fired off a mag, turned to me and said, "Jesus Dad, that's a hand slapper." Sadly, it's off the list.

The second .380 is my Browning BDA. I hadn't shot it in several years and had no recollection as to recoil. I fired one mag of thirteen through it and it also went back in the safe.

I thinking what I really need may be a Beretta 81, in .32acp. It's extra capacity is a plus and it's a soft shooter. I'm kicking myself for not snagging one at a gunshow a couple of years ago. Beretta is making mags for them again, so a plus there.

As for the PP, parts are a blue million and new mags are easily available and reasonably priced. Holsters are also common. I ordered a few spare parts, some new grips and another shoulder holster. Everything is coming from Latvia, for some reason. Maybe the folks in that small country are big Bond fans.

[GT87]

That was a great read. What a nice Walther pistol.

The S&W Shield EZ is another option that may work well for you. My wife has it in 380. It is a great pistol, everything about it is easy to operate and the recoil is minimal. Not that I would discourage carrying the Walther, I think it's cool as hell!

[Trooper224]

I am always interested in what works for people with various hand, wrist, or elbow issues. I am 52 and will certainly have to deal with this issue myself at some point, although fortunately not yet. Multiple people in my family as well as friends deal with similar issues. Your experience and whatever else you choose to post will likely help many people keep shooting.

Rex G is also dealing with various hand and wrist issues. He has posted that a Glock 19X is particularly pleasant to shoot. A G45 might also be a good choice for similar reasons: a full size grip combined with reduced reciprocating slide mass.

My wife is particularly recoil sensitive. She has found that a Springfield XD9 is very comfortable to shoot. I have found it very easy to shoot accurately. When we were first married I was a member of a range that provided free rental guns to executive members. I took advantage of access to hose guns to try her out on most of the reasonably common 9mm pistols, a couple of .38 revolvers, a .380 (Colt Mustang), and a .45 1911. The first time she shot an XD9, she put 10 rounds into a tight group at 30 feet, better than she did with anything else.

Perhaps one of these choices can help you stay close to the full size you have always preferred while slowing the onset of more problems?

The best currently available .32 in my opinion is from Kel-Tex. Recoil is really comfortable since it is a tilt barrel design, with no slide bite. The one caveat is to replace the factory 9 lb. recoil springs with Wolff 11 lb. springs.

If you get to try a P365 .380, S&W EZ .380, or Ruger lite rack .380, I would be interested in your impressions.

Ben_G mentioned elsewhere that the Beretta 80X Cheetah 380 is specifically designed with people with hand or wrist issues in mind. Perhaps that could provide a larger .380 option?

Thanks for the advice Bill, it's appreciated.

I have experience with the 365 and it's not bad. The grip is too small for me being the main issue. It might be worth revisting though. The new improved Cheetah is very interesting. However, my BDA is simply an older Cheetah with a few changes, made under contract for FN by Beretta. My son also owns an 84 Cheetah. Both are snappy enough that they'd soon become unworkable. I'm interested to see if Beretta's done anything to the new ones to mitigate that.

In truth, I actually prefer the .32 to the .380. Niether one is worth a damn with hollow point loads. The .380 is better by a bit, but nothing I'd hang my hat on. On the other hand, the .32acp is a better penitrator in ball form, when it's performance isn't neutered by a short barrel like a Kel-Tec, Beretta tomcat, Seecamp, etc. It's accuracy is also superior due to the projectiles superior ballistic coefficient.

I don't have any trouble working a pistol slide, and the PPs recoil spring is quite stout. My issues are arising from repeated pounding from recoil. Being large for a .32, by today's standards, and an all steel pistol to boot, the PP has no recoil to speak of. I've yet to find a compact polymer 9mm with equal attributes in that regard, but the search continues.

Besides, none of them look as good with a dinner jacket.

[Trooper224]

That was a great read. What a nice Walther pistol.

The S&W Shield EZ is another option that may work well for you. My wife has it in 380. It is a great pistol, everything about it is easy to operate and the recoil is minimal. Not that I would discourage carrying the Walther, I think it's cool as hell!

Since I retired from law enforcement, I've been working under contract with the US Marshal's Service, as a Court Security Officer. For nearly five years now, my fellow CSOs have seen me come in and unlimber my 1911 and lock it up. Recently, I took my jacket off, exposing the Walther and the immediate reaction was, "What the hell is that Big Deal?" (that's me, The Big Deal)

I stuck my nose in the air and replied in my best English accent, "That, colonial, is a gentleman's weapon. To be used with precision and discretion. Not the weapon of a Barbarian, that fires willy nilly and rends the earth promiscuiously. "