For the 2 1/2 people here who have never done FoF or ECQC related training…

[Totem Polar]

I’ll leave this week’s fast and fancy youtube influencer clip here. Because, #1, it’s fast, fancy and IM is reliably a pretty funny guy on video, and more importantly #2, *everything* he says—including about the noise that gun guys make—is the hand-to-God truth.

I’m pretty sure I only made a little bit of that noise, myself, because I knew what was up before going into my first ever EVO. But we all need to know that the phenomenon is a thing. Forewarned is forearmed, and all that.




(There’s another noise that TMA guys with no grappling experience make. It’s exactly the same as the gun guy noise, only nobody else can hear it, because it’s internal. Mine was pretty damn loud, even if I kept it to myself…)


Presented, FWIW. Have a great Labor day everyone.

[SoCalDep]

Favorite part...

“Lemme get off the X !!!!”

It would be out of my lane to comment much except that I agree. I’d probably be one of the guys to make “that sound”...

I’ve managed to survive on being sneaky and lucky. Probably not the best way to be but I’m here.

There are better ways to make one’s way through life I suppose.

[Navin Johnson]

Not really sure what this video was trying to show

But assistant guy would’ve disassembled talking guy in about three or four seconds

At one point talking guy says do whatever you want and assistant guy could’ve put an elbow through his face

I did boxing and martial arts for years and wrestling when I was younger, but without including impact combat, I’m not sure if there is any reality here. Talking guy was open for so many strikes to the groin, abdomen legs and face from a guy who’s 20 years younger and probably has 20 pounds of muscle on him.

Your average 20 to 25-year-old who did high school athletics and still lifts weights and does cardio will kick the living Fuck out of any 50 year old (pound for pound) before including various mind altering substances (or a HS wrestler).

Sorry.

Yes there’s probably a few older people who could defend themselves, but they spend many hours on the mat every week and have done it since they were 25 years old and are not giving up 20 or 30 pounds of muscle. IMHO. YMMV

Sorry if I ruined anybody’s fantasy.

[Hambo]

Not really sure what this video was trying to show

But assistant guy would’ve disassembled talking guy in about three or four seconds

At one point talking guy says do whatever you want and assistant guy could’ve put an elbow through his face

I did boxing and martial arts for years and wrestling when I was younger, but without including impact combat, I’m not sure if there is any reality here. Talking guy was open for so many strikes to the groin, abdomen legs and face from a guy who’s 20 years younger and probably has 20 pounds of muscle on him.

Your average 20 to 25-year-old who did high school athletics and still lifts weights and does cardio will kick the living Fuck out of any 50 year old (pound for pound) before including various mind altering substances (or a HS wrestler).

Sorry.

Yes there’s probably a few older people who could defend themselves, but they spend many hours on the mat every week and have done it since they were 25 years old and are not giving up 20 or 30 pounds of muscle. IMHO. YMMV

Sorry if I ruined anybody’s fantasy.

I'd say I could choke out Gen Z lardasses and stick figures, and that there are some 45 years that will rip your head off like Predator, but the point is well made.

I remember being in my early 40s, in great shape, when I had a wake up call. I was at a gas station when a couple of young black guys pulled up to park. For whatever reason, the passenger got out through the window only. As he climbed out he put one hand down and did a somersault to standing in one fluid motion. He and his buddy laughed their asses off, but he looked like he should be a Heisman running back being interviewed on college game day. I felt old. Now it doesn't matter if I have a ground game or not, because if I get taken down on concrete I'm going to lose when I hit the deck and something breaks. I know this because one of our dogs took me out in the yard and I tore a rotator cuff, and I slipped during a rainstorm several years ago and got my bell rung but good on the concrete porch.

[D-der]

I'd say I could choke out Gen Z lardasses and stick figures, and that there are some 45 years that will rip your head off like Predator, but the point is well made.

I remember being in my early 40s, in great shape, when I had a wake up call. I was at a gas station when a couple of young black guys pulled up to park. For whatever reason, the passenger got out through the window only. As he climbed out he put one hand down and did a somersault to standing in one fluid motion. He and his buddy laughed their asses off, but he looked like he should be a Heisman running back being interviewed on college game day. I felt old. Now it doesn't matter if I have a ground game or not, because if I get taken down on concrete I'm going to lose when I hit the deck and something breaks. I know this because one of our dogs took me out in the yard and I tore a rotator cuff, and I slipped during a rainstorm several years ago and got my bell rung but good on the concrete porch.

Yup, I'm going into it with a torn rotator cuff, bone on bone knees and have been going to pt for the last 90 day's... gotta make an impression in 30 second's. I have to say, South Narc's art of persuasion has generally worked well for me.

[1911Nut]

The louder a martial arts or shooting "expert" yells, the less I hear.

[Robert Mitchum]

I am still a handful in a fight at 70.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render...&ts=1693854325

[SouthNarc]

Yes there’s probably a few older people who could defend themselves, but they spend many hours on the mat every week and have done it since they were 25 years old and are not giving up 20 or 30 pounds of muscle. IMHO. YMMV

Ehhh....ish. Strength is as much a function of neurology as it is muscle fiber. I routinely roll with guys 30 years my junior who fight MMA and who outweigh me by 20-30 pounds. No one tosses me around or wins because I'm in a technique or strength deficit. They may very well have a better gas tank and youthful durability that allows them to do another round where I need a break though.

[Shawn Dodson]

Firearms trainer Tom Givens has had 67 of his students accosted by armed criminals.

Three of his students were murdered when they decided they didn't need to carry a gun that day.

The remaining 64 students successfully defended themselves by shooting the aggressors.

61 out of the 64 defensive shootings occurred between 3-7 yards, with the overwhelming majority being between 3-5 yards (within 1 car length).

The other three shootings were beyond 7 yards, with the farthest being 21 yards.

95% of Givens' students DGU encounters occurred between 3-7 yards.

Based on Givens data, grappling is an outlier situation which makes it a very low training priority. Does it ever happen? Yes, but the odds appear low.

[SouthNarc]

Based on Givens data, grappling is an outlier situation which makes it a very low training priority. Does it ever happen? Yes, but the odds appear low.

Tom’s students in those shootings, most of which were in Memphis, did an exceptionally good job of seeing problems before they got to contact range and dealing with them decisively. As long as you do that, you shouldn’t get into a grappling problem.

That’s not the same thing as grappling being an “outlier problem”.