Wait till they get in?

[camel]

I agree with the hole vs divot observation but I would guess that the wall in question is stucco'd not concrete based upon the surface finish alone. If I had to bet based on what I know of commercial construction materials- I would guess it is a EFIS type synthetic stucco which would offer even less ballistic resistance than a traditional Portland Cement and metal lath.

As an aside. I got to actually shoot a house with Portland cement and metal lath. The age of construction I think determined the outcomes. But pistol calibers didn’t penetrate adequately unless some type of solid flat faced construction. Rifle calibers did much better especially with if they were 308 levels and above. I lost the hard drive that data was on, so specific’s I can’t answer. .556 Fmj pretty much zipped through one wall and stopped on the other.

[MandoWookie]

With the concern about overpenetration in home defense scenarios where you live in a environment like an apartment or duplex type place, is there any place for using frangible ammo? I purchased a case of frangible slugs years ago for cheap, would those be a legitimate option to reduce risk of overpen?

[paherne]

Lots of righteous armchair quarterbacking in here.

Literally every sign from this shows intent to harm by the perps. I won't second guess for a second the homeowners decision. He had no idea how many guys were outside and what they might be armed with.

To those that say "I'd let one in before shooting" I say bullshit.

Believe it or not, some of us have been in multiple situations where if a dude broke the door plane, reached in a pocket again, raised a shovel, etc. we were going to shoot. The time to decide what you would do is BEFORE the incident. Unless there are rounds coming through my walls, I am not shooting back, and even then, taking cover is probably a better idea, although in this case, there was most likely no cover available.

If the resident had yelled, "I'm calling the police." Had answered that he was calling the front office to determine if they were legit maintenance workers because it was not during normal business hours, etc. the suspects would have most likely fled and we would not be having this discussion.

[dave72]

That is an old Rhodesian A5.

They were used in the war in Africa by the Rhodesian Army. There are some articles online about them. Pretty cool guns.

That 3 gunner was/is Pat Kelly.

He sold the above Auto 5 to me. I ended up taking it to the SOF world 3 gun in 2000.

He was also right, at least at the time. I have no idea today, but some of us ran drill with various shotguns on timers. The A5 was insanely fast. The big downside was heavy recoil. The best time for me, when excluding reaction time was 5 rounds in .6 seconds. I have never been able to repeat it, but it at least proved the mechanical ability of the gun. There were and are guys who are way faster than I am.

Pat Kelly and Jim Wall (from Milt Sparks) could pull amazing times with their A5s.

The late Louis Awerbuch was a big fan of his a-5

[G19Fan]

With the concern about overpenetration in home defense scenarios where you live in a environment like an apartment or duplex type place, is there any place for using frangible ammo? I purchased a case of frangible slugs years ago for cheap, would those be a legitimate option to reduce risk of overpen?

They won't go through the door though