243 vs 7.62x39/300 Blk/30-30/Etc in manual repeater?

[Dov]

Wasn't sure if this should go in Rifle or Ammunition section, felt it was about the caliber/ammunition so posted it here.

Was wondering about caliber choice for rifles/carbines similar to ones discussed in this thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ong-gun-choice

I don't have any real experience with the 243 but thought it would be noticeably less recoil than the various 6.5mm (Creedmore, 6.5 Swede, 260 Rem, etc) that it should be roughly equivalent recoil wise to 30-30 though with factory ammo that would perform more like a 5.56 just more so.

I was thinking specifically about guns like the BLR takedown & Rem 760/7600.

When I was younger and pain free I wouldn't have been fine with a 308, had a Steyr Scout for many years, or a 6.5 of some flavor though I've only owned the Swede I like all the 6.5's in that general power class.

Though you can get BLR in 223 IIRC, its not a common chambering and seems like poor tradeoff size efficiency wise IMHO in that package cs a 243 or if pain wasn't issue 6.5CM or 308.

[Malamute]

Im on this road myself. I like the 30-30 for a general purpose walk around and vehicle gun, but the regular 150 gr loads arent nice to my bad shoulder with the standard stock and hard butt plate. I may try a soft pad, and have some 130 gr Speer bullets to try. A friend has shot some game with them and likes how they perform.

Im embarking on the 243 path also, I have an older Ruger 77 tang safety in 243. We shall see how it is on my shoulder, the better stock configuration and soft pad may be enough to make it workable for me.

Part of my general purpose rifle plan includes some exploring about in the Cal desert at some point, its not an over riding concern, but its background noise.

Im pretty certain 243 and the other rounds mentioned are all decisively better game rounds for anything above coyote size than the 223/5.56. The guys that have truly accurate rifles (not me) seem to be shooting prairie dog size stuff at 600+ yards with the 243, and shoot them out to 1000+ yards with decent results. I like the idea of a 223 bolt gun for fun and practice shooting, and the relatively cheap ammo, but have little interest in ARs at this point.


I dont know how accurate the information is here, its been interesting looking it over. My previous liking of heavy 45-70 loads, 348, 338, has me now looking at rebarreling my 338 to 25-06, that may be about my top end ability now, and probably with not much shooting, just as a hunting round.

https://chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

[Duelist]

I have had a .243 bolt action (push feed Savage) and .30-30 Marlin lever at the same time.

I still have the .243, because my purposes for both rifles was primarily as hunting rifles, and I found the .243 more useful, with more effective range and much superior accuracy at range. I have killed deer at 300 yards with it, with no problems. Recoil seemed less from the .243 than the .30-30. .243 is an easy one to use to introduce new hunters to a centerfire rifle that will take deer and other larger than coyote game at a distance.

If my primary purpose for the rifle was as a defensive tool, I might have made a different decision. The Marlin would work well. If I decided to stick with a .243 bolt action with intent that it would be my primary defense long gun, I would have traded it out for a Winchester model 70 or another CRF rifle.

[Malamute]

I have had a .243 bolt action (push feed Savage) and .30-30 Marlin lever at the same time.

I still have the .243, because my purposes for both rifles was primarily as hunting rifles, and I found the .243 more useful, with more effective range and much superior accuracy at range. I have killed deer at 300 yards with it, with no problems. Recoil seemed less from the .243 than the .30-30. .243 is an easy one to use to introduce new hunters to a centerfire rifle that will take deer and other larger than coyote game at a distance.

If my primary purpose for the rifle was as a defensive tool, I might have made a different decision. The Marlin would work well. If I decided to stick with a .243 bolt action with intent that it would be my primary defense long gun, I would have traded it out for a Winchester model 70 or another CRF rifle.

One factor with the 30-30 vs 243 recoil is likely the gun weight difference. The Win 94 carbines run a bit over 6 1/2 lbs, the Marlins a little more, most bolt guns are another pound or so more and probably have a better designed stock.

[Dov]

One factor with the 30-30 vs 243 recoil is likely the gun weight difference. The Win 94 carbines run a bit over 6 1/2 lbs, the Marlins a little more, most bolt guns are another pound or so more and probably have a better designed stock.

Just FYI 30-30 we have is gf's its a 336Y (Youth model) w 16" barrel and 12" LOP it only weights 6.5 lbs (according to Marlin) and it is pleasant for me to shoot with Federal 125 JHP, normal 150's, and Federal 170 Nosler Partions. I actually can't tell recoil apart between those loads unlike my late Steyr Scout which even when I was younger there was world of difference between 308/150 grain loads (even Hornady's high energy ones) which were fine for younger me vs 180 grain loads which were not fun.

The 336Y has hard plastic recoil pad but it doesn't bother me at all, only other 30-30 I've shot is buddy's older fullsize 30-30 but that hurt mildly to shoot even though I was younger then and still shot Steyr Scout & Win 1300 w slugs regularly.

IDK if it is because of LOP or possibly stock shape?

[okie john]

What do you plan to do with this rifle? If you have a Youth 30-30 that works for those things, then I’d stick with it.

Was wondering about caliber choice for rifles/carbines similar to ones discussed in this thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ong-gun-choice

That’s a pre-COVID thread. Post-COVID ammo choices are more limited, possibly because ammo makers went so deep on 308, 223, and 9mm. They’re starting to correct but we’re not out of the woods yet. Handloading opens it up a bit IF you have components.

If you don’t handload, then I’d narrow the field to ammo you can find in multiple locations. Around here, that’s 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. 243 and 30-30 are less common than they should be. Everything else has been hit-or-miss although it’s getting better.

I’ve been testing 308 factory loads for a while now and I find that a lot of it is about like a hot 300 Savage, which is plenty in most of North America. Many (if not most) 150-grain loads are doing 2,700 to 2,750 fps in a 22” barrel. Same goes for milspec FMJ loads. Of these, Norma 150-grain Whitetail stands out. It’s sub-MOA in a lot of rifles and recoil is mild. Oddly enough, their 30-06/150 load runs 100 fps slower than their 308/150 in barrels of the same length. Carbine-length barrels cut this even more.

You could also look for cartridges that are not loaded to their full potential like the 7x57 Mauser and 8x57 Mauser, though availability will be limited at best and it’s far from cheap.

Rifle design also has a lot to do with it: weight, stock design, recoil pad, balance, etc. The Tikka T3 Compact (https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/tikk...t-action-rifle) has a 20" barrel and is ready to go out of the box. It costs about as much as a Glock, and all it needs is a $40 Limbsaver recoil pad, a good LPV, and a few spare mags.

Finally, “hoard” is an ugly word but it wouldn’t hurt to have a few hundred rounds of whatever your rifle shoots best.


Okie John

[Malamute]

Just FYI 30-30 we have is gf's its a 336Y (Youth model) w 16" barrel and 12" LOP it only weights 6.5 lbs (according to Marlin) and it is pleasant for me to shoot with Federal 125 JHP, normal 150's, and Federal 170 Nosler Partions...

IDK if it is because of LOP or possibly stock shape?

What do you plan to do with this rifle? If you have a Youth 30-30 that works for those things, then I’d stick with it.

That’s a pre-COVID thread. Post-COVID ammo choices are more limited, possibly because ammo makers went so deep on 308, 223, and 9mm. They’re starting to correct but we’re not out of the woods yet. Handloading opens it up a bit IF you have components.

If you don’t handload, then I’d narrow the field to ammo you can find in multiple locations. Around here, that’s 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. 243 and 30-30 are less common than they should be. Everything else has been hit-or-miss although it’s getting better.

Rifle design also has a lot to do with it: weight, stock design, recoil pad, balance, etc. The Tikka T3 Compact (https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/tikk...t-action-rifle) has a 20" barrel and is ready to go out of the box. It costs about as much as a Glock, and all it needs is a $40 Limbsaver recoil pad, a good LPV, and a few spare mags.

Finally, “hoard” is an ugly word but it wouldn’t hurt to have a few hundred rounds of whatever your rifle shoots best.

Okie John

Stock design and fit make a difference in perceived recoil. Ive heard many complain about the recoil of the model 94 Winchesters, but theyve never seemed unpleasant to me until after getting hurt.

I have a 6mm rem project going in slow motion. I like the cartridge, but stumbled across a 243 that had sights already added, so managed to snag it, mainly because of ammo availability. Its easier to find loaded ammo than it is to even find brass for 6mm. Bullets seem reasonably available if not in every exact niche. I mostly load centerfire stuff other than cheaper surplus ammo when available, but I like being able to get loaded ammo if need be, and not have to pay premium prices for standard grade ammo.

The 6mm project rifle is a tang safety M77 Ruger. Its getting set up as a switch barrel, and Ive found a couple spare barrels in potentially useful calibers. If I can find a 223 bolt I have a barrel in that caliber.

[Dov]

What do you plan to do with this rifle? If you have a Youth 30-30 that works for those things, then I’d stick with it.

Okie John

What I plan to do with the rifle is to replace the shotguns niche for me, that of inoffensive to neighbors defensive longarm that's why I referenced that thread. Because of pain & etc issues I can't practice with shotguns, even semiauto ones with frequency needed IMO to stay proficient. And though area I live in isn't really anti gun, still seems like lot of people view AR differently than handgun or shotgun or something like lever for defense. It's not uncommon for coworkers or neighbors here to mention they got a pistol and cary permit, though they don't carry, to go with their hunting shotguns & rifles but outside of people I know from the range/gunshops you don't hear about anyone owning an AR or AK.

The 30-30 is not my rifle it's gf's.

I'm fine with the 30-30 cartridge just have some reservations about administrative handling of Marlin/Winchester leverguns for defensive use.

The Ruger American Ranch would be much better for administrative safe handling IMHO with tang safety and detachable mag.

Also think Rem 760/7600 would be as safe as Rem 870, just easier to clear ammo with the detachable mag.

BLR with detachable mag is also safer to clear IMHO than 30-30 leverguns, though not as good for this role as the Ruger American Ranch or Rem 7600 I just have a weakness for takedown guns.


With 30-30 or similar leverguns AFAIK Cruiser ready would be correct way to keep it ready, but if situation occurs where you chamber a round, kinda problematic to make safe afterwards. That's something I've though about more than a little, only see two choices ether open action and leave open which is quick but not real safe if there is ammo still in the gun, or point muzzle in safest direction available and cycle all the ammo out. Now emptying gun by cycling action is okay for deer hunting, but I can think of many possibilities in a defensive situation where that wouldn't be an optimal solution. Like simply needing to move but need for shooting isn't clearly over for example, or needing both hands for something like medical aid or moving someone to cover.

[Dov]

Im on this road myself. I like the 30-30 for a general purpose walk around and vehicle gun, but the regular 150 gr loads arent nice to my bad shoulder with the standard stock and hard butt plate. I may try a soft pad, and have some 130 gr Speer bullets to try. A friend has shot some game with them and likes how they perform.

Im embarking on the 243 path also, I have an older Ruger 77 tang safety in 243. We shall see how it is on my shoulder, the better stock configuration and soft pad may be enough to make it workable for me.

Part of my general purpose rifle plan includes some exploring about in the Cal desert at some point, its not an over riding concern, but its background noise.

Im pretty certain 243 and the other rounds mentioned are all decisively better game rounds for anything above coyote size than the 223/5.56. The guys that have truly accurate rifles (not me) seem to be shooting prairie dog size stuff at 600+ yards with the 243, and shoot them out to 1000+ yards with decent results. I like the idea of a 223 bolt gun for fun and practice shooting, and the relatively cheap ammo, but have little interest in ARs at this point.


I dont know how accurate the information is here, its been interesting looking it over. My previous liking of heavy 45-70 loads, 348, 338, has me now looking at rebarreling my 338 to 25-06, that may be about my top end ability now, and probably with not much shooting, just as a hunting round.

https://chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Are you familiar with the "Precision Shooting" periodical? It's no unfortunately no longer in publication https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...s-publication/ but I got a few volumes from the 90's from my late uncle at least in that time period they really liked the 243, 6mm Rem, 257 (usually improved), and 25-06 a lot for long range varminting like you mentioned.

I never had access to more than 200 yard ranges so never got into long range shooting.

[BobM]

I have the Ruger Ranch in 300 Blackout. I think it makes sense for what you want it to do as long as you put a suitable sighting system on it. I’d probably choose a low powered variable with an illuminated reticle but others like red dots. There’s an interesting thread on the Hillpeople Gear forum about the Ruger Ranch 300 as a general purpose “walking around” rifle.