AIWB - Wedge vs. Claw - I can't get the claw to work

[Clusterfrack]

I'm a 32" waist so I don't consider myself larger people either. May I ask what your current 2.5 setup is? It seems to have only 2 positions of ride adjustment like the 2.0 no? You don't mind the extra bulk from the clips not being spread out to the extremes of the holster like in the 2.0?

The DCC Monoblock helps a lot. I now have the clip on the lower holes.

[luckyman]

Huh, this made me go di through my box o’ holsters. On The one jmck 2.0 I have and the jmck 2.5s of which I have quite a few, the clearance between my middle finger knuckle and the claw looks to be all of about .02” on the p365xl models, while it is quite significantly more on my beretta. The Glock holster has a lot of clearance also but uses a different wing. See attached photos.

Note the “high ride” hole position works perfect for me, when I try the low ride my knuckles regret it due to smashing into my belt.

[Tony Mayer]

In the fall/winter I carry a Glock 19 MOS with optic in JMCK AIWB holster with no problem. However, with it being summer, wearing lighter fabrics doesn't allow this because of the bulge at the belt line due to the wedge of the trigger portion of the holster. I used to accept this and have been using a Glock 43 in summer.

Now I'm trying to see if I can make the G19 work in summer. I always like the internal wedge design of the normal JM holster for a couple reasons: lower ride height and better grip on the pistol during the draw. The wedge forms a bigger gap between myself and the pants at the beltline to get my fingers on the grip of the pistol and it allows this to happen at a lower ride than a wing claw design. The lower ride also helps with less tipping of the top of the gun over the pants. However, this is all at the expense of a larger beltline bulge.

So I decided to break out an older JM AIWB Wing claw 2.0 with split overhook clips and raven wing. The wing claw and wider clip spacing definitely minimizes the bulge but causes a number of other problems. I can't seem to get it to work for me and since I feel everyone loves wing holsters - I feel I'm not doing something right. The lower ride height setting has the gun positioned very close the belt and I can't get a grip on the holster without smashing my fingers into the belt. The higher ride height doesn't help because my middle knuckle crashes into the wing claw and also has more tipping of the gun over the belt line (compared to the wedge design). I tried a "dark wing" and no change.

How are you all getting your claw holsters to work right or are you just accepting a compromised grip and slower draw?

Hit me up with an email, sales@jmcustomkydex.com, include some pics of you wearing the holster and I can see if I can square you away. Thanks

[Tony Mayer]

Huh, this made me go di through my box o’ holsters. On The one jmck 2.0 I have and the jmck 2.5s of which I have quite a few, the clearance between my middle finger knuckle and the claw looks to be all of about .02” on the p365xl models, while it is quite significantly more on my beretta. The Glock holster has a lot of clearance also but uses a different wing. See attached photos.

Note the “high ride” hole position works perfect for me, when I try the low ride my knuckles regret it due to smashing into my belt.

FYI, the reason it's more on the Beretta is because it has the red dot cut and the PX4 series has to ride higher because of where the red dot is attached on the slide.

Thanks

[Cool Breeze]

A few thoughts. Since you said you like the regular AIWB, there is always the George model. It has a reduced wedge, so not quite as much girth at the belt. I have one, and it definitely makes a difference to reduce the excess bulk. It never quite goes away, IMO, when you have stuff stacked directly over the trigger guard.

Personally, I've had the best success with the WC2.5, specifically with PTD loops and wide hole spacing. With the position of the snaps on the loops, it naturally offsets the belt just a bit from the apex of the trigger guard and grip, giving just a bit more clearance to establish grip. This also has the effect of ensuring the claw definitely shouldn't be sticking up above the belt line. With the DCC clips, I know there is a degree of adjustment. I'm just not sure if you can adjust it to a similar level of clearance.

Also, one thing I've found is, I feel like the PTD loops being mounted at the top of the holster body on the WC2.5 adds to the stability. If you think about it, with something like the DCC clips mounted well below the belt line, there is maybe a bit of added potential for movement, versus being mounted directly at the belt line. I might be wrong but, intuitively, it just feels right to me. I've tried the DCC's on the WC2.0 and 2.5 but just couldn't warm up to them.

Those claws (ModWing) lend themselves well to being modified, and they're cheap to replace. There's enough room you could chop maybe the top 1/3 off of one, still get enough surface on the belt, while ensuring plenty of clearance from your grip.

I actually forgot about the George model. I have about 5 or 6 JM holsters and one of them was the wing claw. When I tried it I just got hyper focused on trying to get that thing to work without having to add to the collection!

Re: WC2.5 - it seems a lot of people seem to settle on that variation vs. the 2.0. That being said, the wide mount holes won't work with optic cut sight option. But what you said about the belt attachment being attached higher makes sense to me vs. the strut design and something I hadn't thought of. Thanks!

As you and others have mentioned I may try to do the chop on the wing. That being said, as I have been playing around with loosing up the wing to move it out of the way to test new positions, I am not entirely sure it gives enough clearance like the internal wedge design of the AIWB holster and I may still be hitting knuckle on belt. I could be wrong though or get the mod wing and test that out vs. the raven one that I have.

[Cool Breeze]

If the claw is that high up once you hit your preferred ride height, would sanding a bit of material off the claw be an option? It would seem that if the top of the claw is up high enough to hit your knuckle on, it's not crucial to the claw doing its job by reason of being up so high it's at or over the top of your belt. And you have more than one on hand to experiment with.

You could also try some loop-side velcro tape on the part of it you're hitting. That may not make it great for extended practice sessions, but could be good enough for your specific use case.

And as for cant, switching to a universal model of DCC clip would allow for adjusting it.

I will note that I had my best success hiding a striker-fired gun using a 2.5 with the center mounted DCC clips, and the 2.0s work better for me with hammer-fired guns. The DCC/2.5 combo offered the most ride height and cant adjustment range I've ever personally experienced in a holster.

It seems a lot of people have had success with the 2.5 design. I think I'll try to chop the wing first and see how it goes.

[Cool Breeze]

I think I know what you’re going thru because I’ve been there myself.

I sometimes carry a CZ P10C in an AIWB but due to the bulk I can’t conceal it under just a T-shirt. I’ve played around with making my own wedge out of a Yoga block and the holster does have a claw. The wedge works best for me when it starts about 1/2” below the bottom of the holster then tapers as it goes up the holster and stops about 1/2 way up so the grip of the gun can ride against my stomach. I also have the wedge positioned more towards the slide of the gun and not under where the claw is. This allows the claw to pull the butt of the gun in towards my stomach. I too have smashed my middle & ring finger knuckle on the claw so have it mounted as low as I can get it. It took some trial and error (and a couple different holsters) until I got to where I could carry the P10C AIWB comfortably and concealed. But as I mentioned above, I need a loose over shirt or thick pull over to conceal the P10C due to its size.

Enter the Sig 365XL. I run that AIWB in a Vedder, along with a home made wedge from the same yoga block, and the Vedder also has a claw. Due to the Sig being slimmer I can easily conceal that gun AIWB wearing shorts and a T-shirt. But, because the Vedder pulls the gun in so close, and rides somewhat low, I can’t get a full grip on the draw. So I’ve kind of gone to a modified draw where I insert my strong hand thumb and web of my hand between the grip and my stomach, and pinch it with my palm to pull it up out of the holster. Then once the gun is lifted about 1” out of the holster I finish establishing my normal grip before completing the draw. With some practice I’ve gotten to the point where it doesn’t really slow me down. In contrast, I do have one other AIWB holster for the little Sig that rides higher to where I can get a full hand grip before drawing, but it does not conceal as well even with a wedge and claw.

I had the same issue of smashing my finger in to my belt and the claw when using a wing claw. It seems to be the trade-off between the two particular AIWB styles JM offers. Either go with the classic AIWB that allows for a better draw but have a little bit less ideal concealment, or the wing claw that conceals fantastically but tends to lead to the problems you've described. I tried playing with the cant to alleviate the issue on the WC but found it extraordinarily uncomfortable. I sort of accepted it for the time, but I will admit to running a Tenicor VELO4 these days.

It seems there is no free lunch with this stuff and y'all are having similar struggles. The "wing" on that Velo4 is definitely lower and out of the way. I appreciate the heads up on that.

[Clusterfrack]

As @Elwin suggested, modifying the wing tip can help. I now use the smaller one, ground down by about 50%. That reduces the tuck of the grip so the optic prints less. It also helps with the draw.

[littlejerry]

I'll second everything @Clusterfrack said. I have basically the same setup, except with a 19.5 MOS and 507k.

Definitely the 2.5 with monoblock is better for smaller waist sizes(I'm a 32 and ~165 lbs). Wide belt mounting flat out doesn't work for me. I generally have the optic/sights over the button of my pants. A hook or loop there doesn't work.

Get a 17 length for better stability at the higher ride height.

An optic will print a lot more with the claw. You'll have to find a balance between grip and optic printing.

ETA: I'll diverge on the pillow. I can't add pillows or pads to my holster. Too much junk in the frunk. Looks like a really weird bulge. OK with loose fitting cargo pants/shorts, but doesn't work for any of my slacks or jeans.

[valian]

I find with an optic, like you have, that pulling in the butt of the gun with a claw pushes the optic out making the optic print more. In that case I much prefer a wedge pushing the entire butt and optic back into the body more evenly.