AIWB - Wedge vs. Claw - I can't get the claw to work

[Cool Breeze]

In the fall/winter I carry a Glock 19 MOS with optic in JMCK AIWB holster with no problem. However, with it being summer, wearing lighter fabrics doesn't allow this because of the bulge at the belt line due to the wedge of the trigger portion of the holster. I used to accept this and have been using a Glock 43 in summer.

Now I'm trying to see if I can make the G19 work in summer. I always like the internal wedge design of the normal JM holster for a couple reasons: lower ride height and better grip on the pistol during the draw. The wedge forms a bigger gap between myself and the pants at the beltline to get my fingers on the grip of the pistol and it allows this to happen at a lower ride than a wing claw design. The lower ride also helps with less tipping of the top of the gun over the pants. However, this is all at the expense of a larger beltline bulge.

So I decided to break out an older JM AIWB Wing claw 2.0 with split overhook clips and raven wing. The wing claw and wider clip spacing definitely minimizes the bulge but causes a number of other problems. I can't seem to get it to work for me and since I feel everyone loves wing holsters - I feel I'm not doing something right. The lower ride height setting has the gun positioned very close the belt and I can't get a grip on the holster without smashing my fingers into the belt. The higher ride height doesn't help because my middle knuckle crashes into the wing claw and also has more tipping of the gun over the belt line (compared to the wedge design). I tried a "dark wing" and no change.

How are you all getting your claw holsters to work right or are you just accepting a compromised grip and slower draw?

[RoyGBiv]

How are you all getting your claw holsters to work right or are you just accepting a compromised grip and slower draw?

I'm sure it's me, but, JM terminology confuses me without pics or links...
"JM AIWB 2.0 with split overhook clips and raven wing"
Is this the same AIWB (not showing as 2.0) on the website here?
And Raven wing here?

FWIW... I carry a G19 with RDS and Streamlight in a Wing Claw 2.5 with DCC monoblock and small wedge, and find the ride height perfect on my slightly squishy in the middle 5'8" frame.

Please take this with a grain of salt, since the picture in my head is not perfect...
If you are smashing your finger into the wing/claw at a height that gives you proper clearance for your fingers, you should look closely at the cant of the holster and a possible rotation problem, maybe with the wedge, if you are using one. The claw should ride directly behind your belt, it should not rise up over the belt and be in a position where you can hit it... If the wing/claw is above the belt, I'd suggest that you rotate the entire holster so that the wing claw is behind the belt, then look to figure out what is causing it to rotate above the belt... Is the wedge off center, wrong height or rotated? Are you carrying it in a body location that is pushing the bottom of the holster into a bad position? Consider positioning the clips on the belt closer to or farther from midline and see if that helps... Consider removing the wedge, seeing if you can find a comfortable position with correct finger clearance, then adding the wedge back on.... You could try this with the holster mounted between your belt and your pants (outside pants but inside belt) so you can see more clearly what's going on... and play around quickly with wedge position...

Of course make sure your gun is unloaded first..

For me, a picture would be helpful.. Hopefully someone will chime in with a better solution.

[Clusterfrack]

I’m a huge JMCK fan. @Tony Mayer will help you figure what you need.

The WC 2.0 seems to work best for ‘larger’ people, and that’s not me. I use the 2.5, and adjust height to address the issue you’re having.

[ECK]

I think I know what you’re going thru because I’ve been there myself.

I sometimes carry a CZ P10C in an AIWB but due to the bulk I can’t conceal it under just a T-shirt. I’ve played around with making my own wedge out of a Yoga block and the holster does have a claw. The wedge works best for me when it starts about 1/2” below the bottom of the holster then tapers as it goes up the holster and stops about 1/2 way up so the grip of the gun can ride against my stomach. I also have the wedge positioned more towards the slide of the gun and not under where the claw is. This allows the claw to pull the butt of the gun in towards my stomach. I too have smashed my middle & ring finger knuckle on the claw so have it mounted as low as I can get it. It took some trial and error (and a couple different holsters) until I got to where I could carry the P10C AIWB comfortably and concealed. But as I mentioned above, I need a loose over shirt or thick pull over to conceal the P10C due to its size.

Enter the Sig 365XL. I run that AIWB in a Vedder, along with a home made wedge from the same yoga block, and the Vedder also has a claw. Due to the Sig being slimmer I can easily conceal that gun AIWB wearing shorts and a T-shirt. But, because the Vedder pulls the gun in so close, and rides somewhat low, I can’t get a full grip on the draw. So I’ve kind of gone to a modified draw where I insert my strong hand thumb and web of my hand between the grip and my stomach, and pinch it with my palm to pull it up out of the holster. Then once the gun is lifted about 1” out of the holster I finish establishing my normal grip before completing the draw. With some practice I’ve gotten to the point where it doesn’t really slow me down. In contrast, I do have one other AIWB holster for the little Sig that rides higher to where I can get a full hand grip before drawing, but it does not conceal as well even with a wedge and claw.

[HCountyGuy]

I had the same issue of smashing my finger in to my belt and the claw when using a wing claw. It seems to be the trade-off between the two particular AIWB styles JM offers. Either go with the classic AIWB that allows for a better draw but have a little bit less ideal concealment, or the wing claw that conceals fantastically but tends to lead to the problems you've described. I tried playing with the cant to alleviate the issue on the WC but found it extraordinarily uncomfortable. I sort of accepted it for the time, but I will admit to running a Tenicor VELO4 these days.

[Cool Breeze]

I'm sure it's me, but, JM terminology confuses me without pics or links...
"JM AIWB 2.0 with split overhook clips and raven wing"
Is this the same AIWB (not showing as 2.0) on the website here?
And Raven wing here?

FWIW... I carry a G19 with RDS and Streamlight in a Wing Claw 2.5 with DCC monoblock and small wedge, and find the ride height perfect on my slightly squishy in the middle 5'8" frame.

Please take this with a grain of salt, since the picture in my head is not perfect...
If you are smashing your finger into the wing/claw at a height that gives you proper clearance for your fingers, you should look closely at the cant of the holster and a possible rotation problem, maybe with the wedge, if you are using one. The claw should ride directly behind your belt, it should not rise up over the belt and be in a position where you can hit it... If the wing/claw is above the belt, I'd suggest that you rotate the entire holster so that the wing claw is behind the belt, then look to figure out what is causing it to rotate above the belt... Is the wedge off center, wrong height or rotated? Are you carrying it in a body location that is pushing the bottom of the holster into a bad position? Consider positioning the clips on the belt closer to or farther from midline and see if that helps... Consider removing the wedge, seeing if you can find a comfortable position with correct finger clearance, then adding the wedge back on.... You could try this with the holster mounted between your belt and your pants (outside pants but inside belt) so you can see more clearly what's going on... and play around quickly with wedge position...

Of course make sure your gun is unloaded first..

For me, a picture would be helpful.. Hopefully someone will chime in with a better solution.

Very sorry - I meant JM AIWB Wing Claw 2.0 (fixed in original post) as seen here with plastic overloop clips. https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/Q-AIWB-WC-2-0.html
Raven Wing Claw is this https://ksgarmory.com/product/rcs-claw-wing/

I can definitely play around with positioning and wedge more but the holster does not allow for cant at all. I suppose I could run one of the clips on a different hole height but the holes are pretty far from each other and I don't think it would be ideal.

[Cool Breeze]

I’m a huge JMCK fan. @Tony Mayer will help you figure what you need.

The WC 2.0 seems to work best for ‘larger’ people, and that’s not me. I use the 2.5, and adjust height to address the issue you’re having.

I'm a 32" waist so I don't consider myself larger people either. May I ask what your current 2.5 setup is? It seems to have only 2 positions of ride adjustment like the 2.0 no? You don't mind the extra bulk from the clips not being spread out to the extremes of the holster like in the 2.0?

[Sig_Fiend]

How are you all getting your claw holsters to work right or are you just accepting a compromised grip and slower draw?

A few thoughts. Since you said you like the regular AIWB, there is always the George model. It has a reduced wedge, so not quite as much girth at the belt. I have one, and it definitely makes a difference to reduce the excess bulk. It never quite goes away, IMO, when you have stuff stacked directly over the trigger guard.

Personally, I've had the best success with the WC2.5, specifically with PTD loops and wide hole spacing. With the position of the snaps on the loops, it naturally offsets the belt just a bit from the apex of the trigger guard and grip, giving just a bit more clearance to establish grip. This also has the effect of ensuring the claw definitely shouldn't be sticking up above the belt line. With the DCC clips, I know there is a degree of adjustment. I'm just not sure if you can adjust it to a similar level of clearance.

Also, one thing I've found is, I feel like the PTD loops being mounted at the top of the holster body on the WC2.5 adds to the stability. If you think about it, with something like the DCC clips mounted well below the belt line, there is maybe a bit of added potential for movement, versus being mounted directly at the belt line. I might be wrong but, intuitively, it just feels right to me. I've tried the DCC's on the WC2.0 and 2.5 but just couldn't warm up to them.

Those claws (ModWing) lend themselves well to being modified, and they're cheap to replace. There's enough room you could chop maybe the top 1/3 off of one, still get enough surface on the belt, while ensuring plenty of clearance from your grip.

[Elwin]

If the claw is that high up once you hit your preferred ride height, would sanding a bit of material off the claw be an option? It would seem that if the top of the claw is up high enough to hit your knuckle on, it's not crucial to the claw doing its job by reason of being up so high it's at or over the top of your belt. And you have more than one on hand to experiment with.

You could also try some loop-side velcro tape on the part of it you're hitting. That may not make it great for extended practice sessions, but could be good enough for your specific use case.

And as for cant, switching to a universal model of DCC clip would allow for adjusting it.

I will note that I had my best success hiding a striker-fired gun using a 2.5 with the center mounted DCC clips, and the 2.0s work better for me with hammer-fired guns. The DCC/2.5 combo offered the most ride height and cant adjustment range I've ever personally experienced in a holster.

[RoyGBiv]

I can definitely play around with positioning and wedge more but the holster does not allow for cant at all. I suppose I could run one of the clips on a different hole height but the holes are pretty far from each other and I don't think it would be ideal.

Thanks for clarifying on the hardware parts...

Regarding cant.... I find that if I don't pay attention when putting on my holster, if I'm too close to midline, my body pushes the bottom of the holster towards the outside, sometimes enough to get the top of the wing/claw above my belt. If I mount the holster too far in the other direction, the claw can drop under my belt. There's enough wiggle room with the clips, belt location and body that things can get set out of place... Especially if I'm not snugging my belt enough... That's what I meant by cant in this case..