How to you handle this situation

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Nuance, tell the family members to get down low. Hand over wallet. Having done three or four car defense classes, shooting, driving, bailing out, through the glass, etc. this seems a low probability shoot out for the victim. If one must though, the rest of the family hit the floor.

Anecdote, under fire from the Gods. Driving home, a block away - a hailstorm unleashed with true orange, baseball sized hail. Made it to the drive way. Told the wife to get under the dash, put my body over her. Car was totaled. The neighbor had the hail come through his siding like cannonballs. Quite impressive. The concrete still showed impact hits, years later.

[feudist]

That's a Kobayashi Maru situation. A carload of robbers, all of them armed who achieve tactical surprise and positional dominance on a victim whose mobility is very limited.
Compliance worked in this case. It's probably the best course of action no matter how well armed or good you are with a weapon.
If they started shooting or hustling you into a car then it would be the time for desperate measures.
Practicing the preclusion and prevention of such situations is probably even more important than practicing dealing with them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Officers with the Billings Police Department pulled into the parking lot of Scheels on July 8 responding to a robbery, the Gazette previously reported. Victims told police they were sitting in a parked vehicle when a gray sedan trapped them in their space.

I decided to look at Scheels on line. If this is the right place, the parking lot has lots of spaces that would hard to block you in, as there would room front or back, unless you were against another car.



Something to think about. I grant you that I don't as I try to park close as I and the boss don't like to hike. Close, when we shop, there are always lots of folks around.

[JohnO]

Practicing the preclusion and prevention of such situations is probably even more important than practicing dealing with them.

Yup! Don't let yourself get into that position in the first place.

So you need to go and you park in a spot that can't be blocked by one vehicle. But you don't see the perps coming for you. Shame on you! Were you looking at your phone?

Now you spot them too late but decide to quickly vamoose. Given the prevailing attitude of the virtually untouchable urban youths carrying guns what are the chances they will throw shots at you??

Here for example is a video from a LEO friend demonstrating the flippant attitude of what's out there. A Saturday mid-afternoon at the intersection of State & May in New Haven, CT. Jaywalker does not like that the pickup driver beeped at him so he shoots at the truck. Driver was uninjured.

[GJM]

I decided to look at Scheels on line. If this is the right place, the parking lot has lots of spaces that would hard to block you in, as there would room front or back, unless you were against another car.



Something to think about. I grant you that I don't as I try to park close as I and the boss don't like to hike. Close, when we shop, there are always lots of folks around.

Yes, that is the right place. We regularly visit there, when shooting a match in Billings, and park in the SW corner, because it can be shady and is close to the grass for Astro.

A little bit of information would help me decide -- do they just want your wallet or do they mean worse. I would be very interested in what weapons they had, how they handled them, and how organized they appeared.

[SouthNarc]

I was robbed 9 times in two years of undercover work. 7 of those were in and around vehicles.

The suggestions offered so far point to the trend in the industry of fetishizing gear, marksmanship and gun handling over tactics and thinking.

I’ll offer some more opinions and flesh this out when I finish this class this evening in WA.

[PNWTO]

In brief-

Ambush-based armed robbery? At face value and as presented: Compliance. Everything is replaceable; there’s some personal caveats to that, however.

If the armed robbery turns into an abduction or worse? Then things get weird and that’s probably too nuanced to flesh out in discreet points.

[DDTSGM]

[QUOTE=GJM;1500148 Victims told police they were sitting in a parked vehicle when a gray sedan trapped them in their space.

The victims said at least four people got out of the sedan, all of whom were carrying firearms; one person had an assault-style rifle and the others had handguns, according to court documents. A suspect allegedly demanded one of the victim’s wallet, putting a gun to his head and threatening his life, before all of the suspects drove away from the scene.[/QUOTE]

A little bit of information would help me decide -- do they just want your wallet or do they mean worse. I would be very interested in what weapons they had, how they handled them, and how organized they appeared.

A couple of observations on suggestions so far as they relate to the last, bolded, quote:

1) Driving away FORWARD may be the most/best viable option, even if another vehicle is parked nose into you. I say this because, unless you are in the habit of ramming by backing every vehicle that stops behind you in a parking lot, by the time you recognize that folks are unassing the vehicle, are armed, and get your vehicle into reverse, one or more of the crew will most likely be clear of your vehicle.

As you launch backwards, if you are successful in moving the vehicle far enough to the rear that you can turn your vehicle to drive away you have 1) backed past the assailants that are out of the vehicle and 2) must turn one way or another as driving forward to exit the kill zone. In doing this you are in essence driving through the ambush twice at less than optimal speed for survival.

In a crowded, heck in even a semi-crowded parking lot, the likelihood of pushing the vehicle you have rammed into another vehicle is high. You are unlikely to move two vehicles backwards fast enough to escape any gunmen on foot.

Going forward has the advantage of moving you away from the advancing gunmen. Their is the same risk of pushing a vehicle parked in front of you into a vehicle on the other side of their aisle. This might be somewhat mitigated by how hard you can turn left or right as you push the vehicle in front of you out of the way.

Of course in both situations your ability to drive through an airbag deployment may be a critical component of success or failure.

2) Based on my experience working to build better vehicle stop tactics for patrol, officers seated in the unit parked a car length behind the stopped vehicle are unable to exit their vehicle, or draw in response to a surprise attack from the stopped vehicle. In these cases the assault was initiated while the officer was on the radio - which might approximate someone in a parked vehicle talking to a passenger in the vehicle as the assault unfolds.

Likewise, if the assailants exit the violator vehicle as soon as the patrol unit stops, the officer is not able to get boots on the ground, or draw from a seated position before the assailants are out of the vehicle and on the move toward the unit, generally passing the front bumper and able to engage the officer from close range.

These situations all involve folks who were supposed to be paying attention to what was happening in front of them.

Even if you are primed for what is about to take place, action is quicker than reaction, it is even worse if there is a moments lag because you have to recognize what is unfolding in front, or behind, of you.

In the situation we are discussing, by the time you would gather info about what weapons they had, how they handled them, and how organized they appeared, it would be too late to act in any manner other than what the victims did. Initiating resistance would be likely to result in a one-sided gunfight where the bad guys have the distinct advantage.

JMO YMMV

ETA: when parking in such a lot I usually park far enough away from the store that I don't think folks will be pissed if I use my space and the one in front because 1) my truck is big and I don't like sticking out to the rear more than mid-sized vehicles parked around me; and 2) because I prefer to drive forward rather than back in parking lots. Now I can consciously add a third reason.

[1911Nut]

Let's see . . . . I'm armed, but four armed people have me pinned in and one has a gun to my head demanding my wallet.

My wallet contains about $50-$60 cash, two credit cards, my driver's license, my concealed carry permit, and two medical insurance cards. A few simple phone calls can alert appropriate folks that my cards/identification have been stolen, rendering them useless to those who might steal them.

No way I am going to engage in a gunfight under the current situation as described.

If I bail out of my vehicle and attempt to run away, I will like receive a smack to the head and have my wallet taken. Even if I avoid this and break free and begin to run, there is at least a fair chance I might be shot, simply because I pissed off the bad guy(s).

If I decide to ram my vehicle into the one blocking me, the odds that the four guys are going to begin shooting at me probably increase dramatically.

If I successfully ram the other vehicle and the four bad guys run away, I will probably have $2500 + worth of damage to my vehicle at a minimum. And a lot of paperwork to complete with my insurance company. And time spent procuring a replacement vehicle while my Arizona vehicle gets hauled to a Montana body repair shop.

So . . . . give them my wallet and contents, report the cards stolen, file a report with the Billings police, kick myself in the ass for not being more alert and getting caught in the trap, and try to use the experience as a lesson learned.

[KevH]

There is an assumption here that if you comply and give over your stuff you will be fine. I've never been to Montana so maybe your dirtbags are more empathetic than ours here. Around here sometimes they'll take your stuff and still kill you or your loved ones.

I know we talked about it on here after it happened, but here is Ersie Joyner's story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i83tq1p8c2U

The answer is really not to put yourself in the situation to begin with.

I hate trying to speculate on what I would do without more details, but given the limited information, my truck is going in reverse and pushing the suspect vehicle out of the way (or at least damaging it as much as possible) I'm then driving like hell, calling 911 and heading to a police station.

My bet is that there is more to this story, but that's just me.