How to you handle this situation

[GJM]

A second suspect has been charged in connection to an armed robbery outside of Scheels in Billings last month.

Nathen Patrick Doyle, 21, pleaded not guilty Wednesday in Yellowstone County District Court to counts of robbery and tampering with evidence. Following his arraignment, Doyle’s mother, Brandi LaRaye Garcia, pleaded not guilty to accusations of harboring Doyle while he had an active warrant for his arrest.

Officers with the Billings Police Department pulled into the parking lot of Scheels on July 8 responding to a robbery, the Gazette previously reported. Victims told police they were sitting in a parked vehicle when a gray sedan trapped them in their space.

The victims said at least four people got out of the sedan, all of whom were carrying firearms; one person had an assault-style rifle and the others had handguns, according to court documents. A suspect allegedly demanded one of the victim’s wallet, putting a gun to his head and threatening his life, before all of the suspects drove away from the scene.

[Lost River]

I likely would reverse my way out. Making contact with their vehicle and pushing it out of the way if driving forward was not an option.

That is strictly because:

A. Most sedans these days are not that heavy.

and

B. I am trained to do so.

What I definitely would not do is engage in a gunfight. The bad guys had the numbers in their favor, and they chose the time and place for the fight/confrontation. None of those favor you.

Worst case scenario, give them your wallet, but don't push a bad fight.

[jnc36rcpd]

Hard to say based on a short news article. Once the victim was blocked in, the alternatives were ram the other vehicle, bail out and r un, or draw a weapon and prepare to repel boarders. Once the gun was to his head with likely other bad guys around his car, surrendering his wallet may have been the best option.

In theory, he might have thrown the door open and sent the assailant sprawling or used a cool weapon takeaway to snatch the pistol from his temple, but I assume this did not occur in an early eighties Chuck Norris movie,

[1slow]

When I was younger I drove demolition derby once. Hitting cars at full throttle in reverse was SOP. Dirt track.

Depending on relative car size reverse ramming could be good, especially if you caught them 1/2 way out of car at impact. This would reduce the problem somewhat.

[JohnO]

Some situations are unwinnable!

In this case using a firearm for self defense has a near zero probability of success. Ramming & pushing the blocking vehicle could instigate a ballistic response from the perps. Perhaps the victim/s choose the only viable option, compliance and relied unfortunately on fate.

[Dave Williams]

When I have to sit in a parked car, I always think of Jeff Cooper’s quote from pg 28-29 of TO RIDE, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH:

“One does not sit in one’s car (armored or otherwise) and wait.”

[GJM]

Seems like a choice between relying on the good will of people who are conspicuously not exhibiting good will or pursuing a defense against a group that outnumbers you.

Pretty sure Jeff Cooper would say to start on the guy with the rifle….

[Clusterfrack]

Some situations are unwinnable!

In this case using a firearm for self defense has a near zero probability of success. Ramming & pushing the blocking vehicle could instigate a ballistic response from the perps. Perhaps the victim/s choose the only viable option, compliance and relied unfortunately on fate.

Seems like a choice between relying on the good will of people who are conspicuously not exhibiting good will or pursuing a defense against a group that outnumbers you.

Pretty sure Jeff Cooper would say to start on the guy with the rifle….

Sounds like more than one robbery victim in the trapped vehicle? If it's an unarmed spouse, or even an armed one, that makes the situation even more grim. The time to fight or run was before the bad guys surrounded their vehicle.

If it was one perp, the gun-to-head might offer some opportunities.

[Doc_Glock]

Seems like a choice between relying on the good will of people who are conspicuously not exhibiting good will or pursuing a defense against a group that outnumbers you.

Pretty sure Jeff Cooper would say to start on the guy with the rifle….

Hand over the wallet relying on the fact that this group already had the ability to ambush, and kill everyone in the vehicle and has not, yet. Given that fact I feel compliance in the moment has a higher probability of coming out alive.

[Caballoflaco]

I guess it depends on when you realize you’re being ambushed, who else is in the car with you and your own personal life and risk factors.

If you don’t realize what’s happening until they’re at your B pillar my gut reaction is compliance / social engineering unless they try to move you to second location.


I know it’s a long episode and maybe slightly off topic, but this interview with undercover ATF agent Frank D'Alesio who worked motorcycle gangs is filled with examples of a dude talking/thinking his way out of lots of sketchy situations involving sketchy people.

https://podbay.fm/p/the-team-house/e/1690182300

I don’t remember if I read it here, or heard it on a podcast somewhere, but I know that @SouthNarc recently said that the social engineering side of self defense is what he was most interest in studying these days.

Eta:

Pretty sure Jeff Cooper would say to start on the guy with the rifle….

If the dude with rifle is behind the passenger side c pillar and dude with a pistol is your window I don’t think Cooper’s advice would apply here. I’m sure you’ve seen enough bodycam videos to know how unwinnable a fight from inside a car is when you’re surrounded by four folks with guns. The success rate I’ve seen is 0% and I’ve watched lots of videos of dudes in cars getting shot by the police.