How to you handle this situation

[JohnO]

How about this one. You stopped in a 7-11 to get a drink in the WRONG neighborhood. The guys in the store are just as bad as their friends outside.

I think this recording is displaying at 2x speed.

[DDTSGM]

Haven't read the PatMac book, so no comment.

I'm a firm believer that if you want to increase, teach situational awareness you should read, and should encourage/make family members to read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Bescker.

In terms of further reading I'd go with: Left of Bang and Just Two Seconds. Being a nice guy, I left Just Two Seconds in my office bookcase for the guy who replaced me, looking at the price now, I really wish I hadn't.

https://www.amazon.com/Just-2-Second...rmat=4&depth=1

https://www.amazon.com/Just-2-Second...rmat=4&depth=1

ETA: Just ordered the Pat Mac book.

ETA: Arrived today, opened Amazon envelope at 6:00ish, done by 8:30. Very general, probably will serve as a 'yeah, I do that' or 'yeah, I need to start doing that again' for most here.

Good jumping off point for someone who doesn't have any idea about situational awareness or tactical thinking.

Probably too basic for most folks here, though.

YMMV

[Lester Polfus]

I don’t know what I’d do in this situation. Probably hand over the wallet and hope things don’t escalate.

However, when it comes to pushing vehicles out of the way, ramming speed often isn’t a good choice. I’ve been blocked a few times parking on the streets of LA. I got out by placing the bumper against the offending vehicle, dropping the tranny into first gear and pushing. The vehicles moved without sheetmetal damage or setting off airbags. Another option to consider for those in 4x4s- put the T-case in 4lo.

I’m not suggesting this would have been a good choice in the situation being discussed. Just saying pushing instead of ramming is likely to be more effective in moving vehicles out of the way.

It's much harder when the guy with the assault rifle is mag-dumping into the passenger compartment of the car you're sitting in.

[Caballoflaco]

How about this one. You stopped in a 7-11 to get a drink in the WRONG neighborhood. The guys in the store are just as bad as their friends outside.

I think this recording is displaying at 2x speed.

What am I missing here? somebody shot through a window and everybody in the store got down and was looking for cover. It might have been a gang hit or something, but guys in the store didn’t look like they were breaking any laws at the time the shooting started.

[1slow]

If I'm reading this correctly there are two "good" guys in a car blocked in by another car. Stationary vehicle surrounded by "at least" 4 people, one with a rifle.

There is no gun or car solution for that problem.

Compliance is the only immediate solution.

Compliance works. I'm living proof of it. I complied in 8 of those 9 robberies I referenced. The one where I actually didn't cost me some hearing in my left ear after a fight over a gun in a car. Why didn't I comply with that one? Because it didn't feel like the others.

No one can teach you that. No one can teach you when you should comply and when you shouldn't.

Honestly I have no idea if that guy was pulling the trigger on me when I made my initial move or if my initial move caused an involuntary clenching of his hand and he squeezed that round off accidentally. That was certainly what his attorney argued.

That round missed my head by about an inch.

Anyway the point is that despite being a violent felony, the vast majority of robberies don't end with a killing. Thousands of people that live in housing projects and bad neighborhoods are robbed as part of life. Me saying that doesn't minimize the urgency of robbery.

If you're gonna make the move at gunpoint, authentically feigning compliance is how you set that up. Using speech to impose friction on motor processes and splitting attention is critical. An example of that would be when they say "Gimme your wallet" you reply "Dude you want the wallet, the cash or my watch?" 1,2,3 things he's thinking about now. Using your hands to pattern compliance works well to set up a draw. You hand over your watch. your wallet, your key fob, and THEN your muzzle.

None of these are range skills and there is no dot-torture, 5x5, or live fire analog for this.

I think this is the clearest statement. Especially the part about how the situation felt.

[Zincwarrior]

A second suspect has been charged in connection to an armed robbery outside of Scheels in Billings last month.

Nathen Patrick Doyle, 21, pleaded not guilty Wednesday in Yellowstone County District Court to counts of robbery and tampering with evidence. Following his arraignment, Doyle’s mother, Brandi LaRaye Garcia, pleaded not guilty to accusations of harboring Doyle while he had an active warrant for his arrest.

Officers with the Billings Police Department pulled into the parking lot of Scheels on July 8 responding to a robbery, the Gazette previously reported. Victims told police they were sitting in a parked vehicle when a gray sedan trapped them in their space.

The victims said at least four people got out of the sedan, all of whom were carrying firearms; one person had an assault-style rifle and the others had handguns, according to court documents. A suspect allegedly demanded one of the victim’s wallet, putting a gun to his head and threatening his life, before all of the suspects drove away from the scene.

Real world? you die.

[Dov]

Sounds like more than one robbery victim in the trapped vehicle? If it's an unarmed spouse, or even an armed one, that makes the situation even more grim. The time to fight or run was before the bad guys surrounded their vehicle.

If it was one perp, the gun-to-head might offer some opportunities.

The correct solution is not to get into the trap, boxed in, in the first place. Doesn't Navy's Top Gun teach something simialr?

I was targeted for a car jacking once, when driving a cheap economy car in a good neighborhood. Was in parking lot after getting a coffee and killing bit of time before meeting friend and his wife for dinner ~20 minutes away.

I spotted the carjackers when they drove behind me and two people got out, and starting flanking from behind where I was parked one person to right and one to left.

I went to grip but didn't draw because I could see their hands were empty, wanted to drive off but that car was a manual and first gear was geared to high and I didn't want to risk trying to drive off and having it stall.

I saw the guy on driver side wave off his partner, because he noticed something probably that I was watching both of them, and they got in their car and left.

They looked very coordinated, smooth, and practiced.

Next day after adrenaline wasn't making thinking so difficult I was real unhappy with my response, ideal situation would to drive off or while I had that car at least not be sitting in it as a target.

Exiting the car might have triggered action on their part, and no idea how many people beyond the driver where in their car, and while there was no car parked behind me & I was parked so I could drive forward out of parking spot, exiting would have trapped me with narrow path between cars and my own car door blocking retreat, with only open path being towards people flanking me.

Lessons I believe I learned:

Sitting in a car makes you a target.

Driving away ASAP is by far best "tactic", to facilitate that vehicle wise don't want manual tranny or other barriers to rapid transition from parked to gone. Also think EV's & hybrids have some real advantages with their high torque at 0 RPM and not having to "start engine", also diesels with their high torque worth thinking about.

Even with temperamental 1st gear in that car if I had started leaving at first hint of suspicion I would have been away before I was sure there was a problem. After being targeted over a cheap car I no longer feel any hesitation to leave where I am at, or avoid turning into my home if I have any suspicions about vehicles or people around me.

I didn't care that I only had G26 and J frame in my front pockets vs something better, I was just wishing my car had automatic tranny or proper granny 1st gear.

Don't think I'll own a manual tranny vehicle again.

I almost never sit in a car anymore unless actually driving, on very rare occasions I do I pick parking location very carefully and am ready to leave in a hurry.

[camel]

What am I missing here? somebody shot through a window and everybody in the store got down and was looking for cover. It might have been a gang hit or something, but guys in the store didn’t look like they were breaking any laws at the time the shooting started.

That’s just life in New Haven Ct.

[camel]

It's much harder when the guy with the assault rifle is mag-dumping into the passenger compartment of the car you're sitting in.

It takes a sense of nervousness to realize a situation for someone who lives in high crime areas to respond appropriately like an undercover officer would or should. Or everything’s not about when do I pull my gun. A lot has to be said about knowing your territory.

[MistWolf]

It's much harder when the guy with the assault rifle is mag-dumping into the passenger compartment of the car you're sitting in.

I’m sure it is!