Shooting well vs being a good shooter

[medmo]

I hate nice gyms

Flintsone gyms my fave.

[RevolverRob]

There is something to be said for shooting guns which are more difficult to shoot well as a training aid. Simple fact is, I can train all day with a 45oz 1911 and do fucking great, then I can pick up a 16oz Airweight J-Frame and do not so great. I can train all day with a J-Frame and do great and then pick up a 1911 and do just as great.

The gun that is harder to shoot does require you to focus more on fundamentals. But I think there is a point of diminishing returns, because the focus on shooting an Airweight well is trigger control and sight alignment, we typically have to go to bunny fart wadcutter loads to get speed. We lose the ability to sight track as quickly, etc. Plus, it just takes a toll on you to shoot well. I can do up to 100 rounds out of a snub in a single session and then I'm done. And I don't just mean with the snub, I mean will all pistol shooting.

That all said, when I go to grab a gun when I'm going someplace in harm's way or to a competition, I don't grab a J-Frame, I grab a 1911. Because I have to focus on other things like target ID, surroundings, etc. I want the gun that I can shoot Alphas with, without thinking what-so-ever. Because sometimes being a 'good shooter' isn't what you need to be, you instead need to shoot well.

That the two go hand-in-hand should not be lost on this crowd. I think we can and/or should all recognize that good shooters shoot well more often.

As for the whole, "The game is a video game" - Yes my dudes...USPSA has jumped the shark...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We all know that the Js are harder to shoot. But they can be shot acceptably. One carries them because of sloth and NPEs. What bugs me (haha), is the guys who continually bring a full on gamer gear to the specific carry gun match. Of course, we let them shoot ($). I doubt they carry in 'real' life. I was looking at the IDPA facebook discussions and some guy was asking about whether a holster would be legal. Full on game holster that you would never wear in real life concealed carry. IDPA is going gamer also.

As folks said, get what you want out of the opportunity to shoot with more draws, strings and movement than the square range.

At a carry match, I shot a 642 - all kinds of suggestions - you should use moon clips, get giant grips, blah, blah - totally miss the point for worship of the Hit Factor God.

[GJM]

We all know that the Js are harder to shoot. But they can be shot acceptably. One carries them because of sloth and NPEs. What bugs me (haha), is the guys who continually bring a full on gamer gear to the specific carry gun match. Of course, we let them shoot ($). I doubt they carry in 'real' life. I was looking at the IDPA facebook discussions and some guy was asking about whether a holster would be legal. Full on game holster that you would never wear in real life concealed carry. IDPA is going gamer also.

As folks said, get what you want out of the opportunity to shoot with more draws, strings and movement than the square range.

At a carry match, I shot a 642 - all kinds of suggestions - you should use moon clips, get giant grips, blah, blah - totally miss the point for worship of the Hit Factor God.

Anything that has a time and a score is a game. Why does it surprise you that some people try to gain competitive advantage with their gear selections? Same with their prioritization of speed vs accuracy as part of harvesting maximum points.

[Borderland]

Yes, that is what I am discussing, as was Stoeger. Nils basically said the same thing about the steel Rival vs the polymer one -- you can do everything with the polymer Rival you can with the steel one, but the polymer gun requires more perfect technique

My interest in this is not how one shooter compares to another. Shooting games are just that, games -- run whatever you think gives you the best chance of accomplishing whatever you are gaming for. However, to be the best you, I think it may be helpful to also shoot things that are harder to shoot to help refine your technique.

I would add that I am not suggesting that shooting a stock Glock 19 will help you master shooting an Open gun, or some of the CO guns that nearly are Open guns. Those guns require a high level of skill to max perform them. The hard to shoot guns, however, do expose defects in your technique that may be harder to spot with the easier to shoot, heavy gun with the light trigger.

My interest in this is not how one shooter compares to another. Shooting games are just that, games -- run whatever you think gives you the best chance of accomplishing whatever you are gaming for. However, to be the best you, I think it may be helpful to also shoot things that are harder to shoot to help refine your technique.

I think this holds true for most games. I've never shot any pistol games but I did shoot a lot of trap about 15 years ago. I shot with the best local shooters. Local I mean in about 100 mile radius. Guys that were heavily invested in equipment who shot several times a week and went to the regional competitions. Everyone knew who they were and trying to compete with those guys was never a level I expected to achieve. Several of us who shot every week were known as good shooters, or lucky shooters, if we happened to win a few bucks on Thursday night.

In those days I was more of a bird hunter than a gamer. I preferred shorter barrels and lighter guns. The high ribbed, heavy trap guns look like a 59 Cadillac to my eye. I'm sure they give trap shooters an advantage but it's too specialized for me. I managed to shoot a heavier 30'' SC gun fairly well but it was never my favorite. I stopped hunting a long time ago, about the time I stopped shooting trap. I sold all of my reloading gear and most of my shotguns.

Scratching an itch I shot some trap this week with one of my field guns and enjoyed it. I need to buy some lighter ammo and change the pad, but I'm going to start shooting again after about 15 years. I still don't suck but I'm off my old game by about 6 birds.

The goal is to just master the gun I have and have some fun. Is that shooting well? When it comes to score I'm not a good shooter. I used to be but not so much anymore.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Anything that has a time and a score is a game. Why does it surprise you that some people try to gain competitive advantage with their gear selections? Same with their prioritization of speed vs accuracy as part of harvesting maximum points.

Only commenting on folks who have the opportunity to try specific carry equipment in a more dynamic situation and then bring the game gear. That seems silly to me. Plenty of other times to practice the gamer paradigm. Go for it then. Or if the organization wants to maintain some semblance of realistic SD. It's clear USPSA doesn't. Certainly Steel Challenge doesn't because it is a fun game! IDPA is forgetting that in part.

That's why in TX and here supposedly we ran concealed carry, short range matches. If you want a Shadow with optics and a velcro belt and brass weighted mags - why both to go to it?

[Warped Mindless]

Only commenting on folks who have the opportunity to try specific carry equipment in a more dynamic situation and then bring the game gear. That seems silly to me. Plenty of other times to practice the gamer paradigm. Go for it then. Or if the organization wants to maintain some semblance of realistic SD. It's clear USPSA doesn't. Certainly Steel Challenge doesn't because it is a fun game! IDPA is forgetting that in part.

That's why in TX and here supposedly we ran concealed carry, short range matches. If you want a Shadow with optics and a velcro belt and brass weighted mags - why both to go to it?

I agree with this.

USPSA and steel challenge are places for gamer rigs/guns. IDPA should stay in their niche and keep things more “realistic”

[GJM]

I agree with this.

USPSA and steel challenge are places for gamer rigs/guns. IDPA should stay in their niche and keep things more “realistic”

Is IDPA realistic?

[Clusterfrack]

Is IDPA realistic?

[Clobbersaurus]

I love Glocks. I shoot them very well and they give up nothing to my Shadow 2’s in terms of drill times and HF during training, if I do my part. It’s the doing my part piece that’s the problem. If I miss my grip with my Glocks, I’ll let shots go high, which has resulted in mikes on partials. The Shadow’s are more forgiving of an occasional bad grip. But, Shadows are slower to transition, reload, and draw. Measurably slower, for me anyway.

I’ve come to the method of training with Glocks in the off season, to ensure my grip remains solid and give me a fill of my Glock passion of the gun thing, and then training on and using Shadows during competition season, because they are more forgiving of those big point loss disasters that can cost you a match.

I don’t really agree that anyone can shoot a Shadow well. I’d rather say that any hoser can hook up at a small match. But put him in a three day match with 16 or more stages and most of them don’t do as well. Give the hosers enough rope and they will eventually hang themself with their only tool, speed.