Originally Posted by RoyGBiv
This ^^^^^ plus if one wanted to be pedantic Colt has changed the markings on their AR pattern rifles multiple times over the years for a variety of reasons, real and imagined:
AR-15
AR-15A2
Sporter
Sporter II
AR-15A3
Law Enforcement Carbine
M-4 Carbine
AR-15A4
Carbine
Our policy was no guns left in the car if it was parked outside. Sadly it was a policy because we’d had guns stolen out of cars at Officer’s homes.
When I had a pickup truck with a camper shell as my take home car I backed up to my garage and took out two SWAT bags, my MP5 , and a gas gun. I’d get close enough to the garage that you couldn’t open the back shell door with the garage door down.
When I went to Vegas for two weeks of MP5 Operator/Instructor school I snuck my MP5, my duty pistol, and a secondary out of the car into the hotel I was staying at. If I left the room the MP5 and the duty pistol got handcuffed to the sink pipes. It was the best I could do.
Fortunately all my K9 cars fit into the garage so I didn’t have to park in the driveway. My wife didn’t like it but I wasn’t parking a marked unit outside. When I had SUVs we had secure, lockable storage drawers in the back. The later SUVs had alarms. If I went anywhere off duty the drawers were locked securing my rifle and the alarm was set.
Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.
Ramble and thread drift-DO NOT LEAVE GUNS IN CARS.
My first shooting mentor taught me that you never leave mission critical gear and guns in the car overnight. Period.
We went from the KC metro to AZ, NM, OK, TX, TN, KS and MO for any number of shooting/training trips. It was the same routine every time.
Range bag with gun(s), ammo bag(s), long gun, was schlepped in and out every day.
I have had at least two agents/TFOS I have worked with in the last 25 years get 30 days on the beach for guns being left and stolen out of their cars.
1. Took primary gun off the waist line and put under seat when eating lunch at the City Market. Said gun was stolen and later recovered. 30 days no pay.
2. TFO had long gun in trunk which was also supposed to be secured with a piece of chain and key lock which stopped the trunk from being fully opened to access the trunk contents. TFO came home late after literally 36 hours on the road trailing folks etc. and did not secure that chain/lock combo though he usually did so. Somebody broke into his leased G ride, popped the trunk and got his long gun.
Perp was later pulled over on unrelated minor traffic incident with that rifle, in case, and other booty in his trunk. Because God takes care of children and fools, said TFO got a 30 day suspension from the TF but did not lose his slot given
A. His overall effectiveness
B. The circumstances of his immediate work prior to the loss of the weapon
C. The recovery of the weapon without further incident
His sponsoring agency DID NOT impose discipline so all he really lost was 30 days of TFO overtime, not his base salary. He spent that 30 days cleaning up old files at his agency. He was a really good guy and 20 plus years of great work and goodwill came into play.
The protocol for my position is I have to lock my weapon up in an assigned lock box just beyond a security checkpoint before heading up into the bldg on a daily basis.
When I work after hours and can park below the bldg in a secured area, I still bring my weapon upstairs and lock it down in a similar manner as I do during normal hours. I am not leaving in the car and I am not taking it into an unauthorized space.
At the expense of sounding preachy, in 2023, “I would not do that’s %*it if I were you” re leaving guns in cars. Life is hard enough without inviting it to kick you in the junk.
I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.
The whole leaving guns in cars thing often goes to extremes. We're not allowed to leave a long gun unattended in a vehicle, even temporarily, regardless of the security measures in place.
If you have a trunk vault, I think it's entirely reasonable to allow the rifle to be locked up for temporary storage. These sorts of rules make it prohibitively difficult to travel with long guns for work, and more often than not our agents will just opt to leave the long guns at the office instead of bringing them due to the administrative burden. Need to eat dinner while traveling like a human being? Literally, we have to bag up the long gun and bring it inside the restaurant with us. Need to go inside a partner agency's office for a briefing or to put faces to names? Bring it inside. What about when we go to a US Courthouse with a prisoner, what do you do with the long guns? Can't bring'em inside. Can't leave'em in the vehicle. Technically, it requires agents to break policy, or to bring an extra agent just to sit on the vehicle, or transfer of the long gun to another agent prior to transport.
These are not good rules. This is all quite ridiculous because it's specific to long guns...our handgun policy is quite reasonable, in that we are permitted temporary (not overnight) storage of pistols as long as it's in a lockbox mounted inside the vehicle.
There is a time and place for leaving guns locked in vehicles, using appropriate equipment to do so. It's actually quite necessary. A rifle rack in the cab is not the same as a trunk vault. Leaving it in your vehicle overnight is not the same as temporary storage during your work day while you go about business.
Rules prohibiting vehicle storage in its entirety are absurd.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
It's an interesting problem. Accessibility vs security. With some of the newer battery powered saws and cutters on the market, there is little that can't be breached with enough time and opportunity.
I would hope the vehicle alarm provides reduced time for the theft. But that would require people to pay attention to such things.
Taking a break from social media.
Yes. Our rules are the same for long guns or handguns -no overnight storage without specific written authorization but during the duty day guns must be out of plain view and secured to the vehicle whether in a lock box or via handcuffs / cable lock.
Re: courthouses- our prior federal courthouse had no secure parking, and our current federal courthouse only has secured parking if you were actively picking up or dropping off a prisoner. The old courthouse also had no real provisions for gun lockers so there was a chest height booth in the middle of the lobby with gun lockers that everyone hated using. A coworker who didn’t want to be bothered using the gun Walkers left a POW Glock 26 in the glove compartment of his jeep ride and had it stolen from the parking lot of the federal courthouse.
Most car burglars are surprisingly quick but they work on volume. I’ve never seen one with a battery powered saw. That would be something more likely seen among catalytic converter thieves. AFAIK we’ve never had a gun stolen that was secured to the vehicle unless the whole vehicle was stolen.
LOL… this statement is gold and important life advice. I’m stealing it (with attribution of course) to share with younger coworkers and employees.
I spoke with a former FBI agent who was in Miami around 1986. He advised that agents could "check out" most any long gun they wanted BUT if the long gun was lost, it was a career ending offense. Maybe not fired, but forget ever promoting. The agents were forced to make a decision between the need for a long gun and a need to preserve their careers. If you look at the whole operation, there were non-SWAT agents who had opted to check out and carry long guns including an M-16 and MP-5 (one even had rifle rated armor) but they didn't make it to the scene in time to matter.
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If I recall correctly someone mentioned those long guns (M-16/MP-5) were not authorized for “take home” and had to be checked out from the office at the start of the day and returned at the end of the day.
Agents normally have take-home cars and can report directly to and from wherever they need to be for work so in a large metro area (with large metro area traffic) signing long guns in and out of the office at the start and end of the day can add an hour or more on each end of the day.
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