Hand Length to Gun Fit: A Case Study: RFI for Data on Pistol Size (Part 2)

[RJ]

Ok, now post the current Part 2 Table:

[RJ]

A few footnotes on the table:

I was trying to sprinkle the more popular handguns in with a range of sizes, ranging from some of the smallest I could find, to the largest. Naming the "sizes" consistently proved difficult, as the terms in use by manufacturers varies a lot. In addition, I'm fairly new to guns so don't have a deep or wide understanding of the relative gun sizes out there, by any means. I have owned a few of the smaller ones, but having M/L hands, I don't have first hand knowledge of larger frames.

I would also be very glad for any input on guns that are missing from the table, or on how I have them grouped, or on the "size (1)" assignments, in relative terms. The table also includes the data on GC collected to date, interlaced with my guesstimate of the range of pistols. Thanks again for that guys.



I did spend an interesting 10 minutes yesterday at the fancy pants gun range near me. They have a display with perhaps 200 guns, cabled down in row after row, you can go along and finger at your leisure. I went from gun to gun, handling them, getting a feel for the large pistols (e.g. 92FS, P220, etc.).

[Irelander]

Springfield XD-E 7-1/16"
HK P2000SK 7" Small back strap
S&W 642 5-7/8" Factory rubber stocks

[RJ]

Appreciate the data ^^^.




Couple additional thoughts.

The Part 2 pistol table is going to grow, and thus be problematic to post graphically and keep legible. I already had to squish it to post it. I'm leaning towards posting the whole multi-tab analysis spreadsheet read-only on my Google drive, with a link for folks to peruse and download to play with, if they wish. I'll need to do some tidying up before I do that. To emphasise, I do not keep any personal identifying data in, at all; just the ordinal natural number for each subject in the Part 1 table. The guns are assigned indexes, similarly, no identifying info, just P-xxx.

On Part 2, I changed from "Category" to "Class", on the descriptive term(s) used to broadly referred to pistols. I think "snub nose revolver", "micro-compact", "compact" sound more like "classes" of guns to me. So, we'd be talking about "compact class" gun, or "duty/full size" class gun etc. I think I like that word more betterer.

And as more data is added from folks, I'll be able to remove my pistol guesstimates and trim out the table, so we can start to see actual pistols start to group into classes. I'll keep some of them for humorous purposes, though. What will be interesting (to me anyway) will be how/whether Grip Circumference tracks to "Class", or no. Just looking at the initial numbers, it seems not, but we'll see; that whole thought process is really what I wanted to explore, and is what Part 3 is all about.

Stay tuned.

[RJ]

Hahaha and they say Google isn't watching you. Popped up in my feed is this excellent video by Chris, posted 8 days ago:

[RJ]

Special request: If anyone could provide the Grip Circumference for the following pistols, it would be most appreciated:

Glock 26
Glock 19
Glock 17
Glock 43
Glock 43X or 48
P365 X Macro
M&P Shield 9


Grip Circumference is defined as: the shortest distance around the entirety of the grip/stocks, including the trigger, measured along an axis from the rear of the grip at the “web of hand” position, to the vertical mid-point of the trigger face, and back.

Notes:
Use a cloth tape measure or cord (e.g. paracord) stretched taught around the circumference for this measurement.
If trigger has a tab safety, compress it so you are measuring flat against the shoe. Do not press the trigger itself.

Thanks!

[MLee]

Here are my measurements. I have listed the specific config as some are not standard.

Walther PDP F-Series small backstrap 6 3/8"
Walther Q4 Sf with Overwatch Precision trigger and Lok Grips thin profile 6 5/8"

Sig P229 Legion SAO 6 5/8"
Sig P229 SAS (Short reach trigger) 7"
Sig P938 6 1/8"

HK P30sk small backstrap and thin sides LEM CDA 4.1 6 9/16"
HK P30L small backstrap and thin sides LEM 6 5/8"

I have short fingers so thanks for compiling this data.

[Sig_Fiend]

Gun	Circumference (mm)
Beretta 92D-XR	176 (stock Vertec grips)
G17.2	172
G26.3	172
G19.3	172
G17.3 RTF2	172
Glock Gen3 Overwatch FALX	169
Glock Gen3 Overwatch DAT	173
HK45	179 (M)
HK P2000	184 (XL)
HK P30	174 (all backstraps, GGI flat trigger)
HK USP9 FS	182
HK USP9C	177 (GGI flat trigger)
HK VP9	169 (all backstraps)
SIG P250C	175 (Medium module, stock trigger)
SIG P250C	178 (Medium module, Armory Craft flat trigger)
SIG P250C	171 (Wilson module, stock trigger)
SIG P250C	177 (Wilson module, Armory Craft flat trigger)
SIG P365 380	157
SIG P6	176 (Hogue G10 grips, smooth)
SIG SP 2009	172 (S backstrap, short trigger)
Walther P99 AS gen 2	DA: 180 (S,M) / 190 (L) | SA: 167 (S,M) / 175 (L)
Walther PPK/S .22lr (current production)	169

Several things stand out to me. Neither the VP9 or P30 backstraps change grip circumference around the top of the grip. For people with L/XL+ hands, I'm guessing at least a good 6-8mm increase in upper grip circumference on the VP9 would help quite a bit. To me, the VP9 feels like trying to deadlift with those thin, cheapo, department store barbells; feels like a toy. I'm excited at the prospect of HK's new arched backstraps potentially making their way to the US. I think those should be a nice improvement.

For my hand size (L/XL), the P30 feels okay, but closer to a 180mm circumference seems to work better for me, depending on the trigger. The USP9 FS is 182mm, and I find that feels quite nice and robust for my hand size. I can only hope HK makes an arched backstrap for the P30, kind of like the new VP9 ones, though somehow I doubt they will.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised but, Glock's circumference sure is consistent. In this case we can see the Overwatch FALX does in fact reduce grip circumference by 3mm. Not huge but, you can feel it if you check back to back with a stock trigger. Worth considering for those with smaller hands where every bit counts. I don't have small hands but, I find I like that trigger a lot. Seems to help with keeping my trigger finger off the frame and keep from inducing any accuracy issues.

The surprising one is the P99 AS with the large backstrap. At 190mm, it's substantially larger circumference from even a 92D trigger.

Unsurprisingly, the P365 has a ridiculously small circumference. I'd be curious to see what those handle and shoot like if you could add ~20mm circumference. Maybe just a bit of width, but probably adding most of it to the entire backstrap.

[RJ]

...

Thank you for all the data!

Much appreciated. I'll be chewing on this later today.

[0ddl0t]

Kahr PM9: 147mm
Sig P365 (original/curved trigger): 152mm
Glock 35 g3: 172mm


I used tailors tape which is ~3/8" wide so the measurement may be slightly larger than with Paracord