(Don't) Slow Down and Get Your Hits

[MVS]

[David S.]

Me: mechanic based and visual confirmed, I get a ton out of dry and don’t need live to confirm what I know is going on with my mechanics. If you take doubles out of it… all first shots off transitions or draws are actually dry fire skills.

Did it take significant live fire to get to the point where your dry fire became representative of live fire?

This visual confirmation schemes.... are dependent on your mechanics. If your mechanics are variable, then so is the fidelity of your visual confirmation requirement.

Shooting based off vision assumes solid mechanics. That's not a good assumption for newer shooters and people who don't necessarily train.

So to that end, you can't tell someone with poor trigger and grip to shoot based off vision... because it won't work.

You have to get to a certain level of proficiency before it can even remotely become a thing.

This is really helpful perspective. Thx.

[Clusterfrack]

Great video, @MVS. It was pretty funny--if about 3x longer than needed.

Here's a link to a Mindset & Tactics thread on a similar topic. The first post has a link to a PSTG interview with Matt Pranka of X-Ray Alpha, who is very much not about using the idea of "slowing down" in training or tactics.

The first half of the interview is not paywalled. I highly recommend listening if you’re interested in some of the discussions we’ve been having about how to train for the “real world”, and how competitive shooting relates.

TLDR: “slow down and get your hits” isn’t the answer.

Let’s discuss after y’all have a chance to listen to it. Can we keep the discussion free of criticism of people, and focus on ideas and outcomes?

https://traininggrouplive-pstg.libsy...side-the-lines

[JCN]

Did it take significant live fire to get to the point where your dry fire became representative of live fire?

Yes and no…

For draws and single shot transitions… no.

If you don’t wobble on your trigger pull then what you see is what you get.

I have probably a 2-4MOA wobble at speed in my SA trigger mechanics… but you add and allow wobble in movement, weight shifts and transitions. The wobble compounds.

So basically EVERYTHING except doubles can be done in dry.

When I go to the range I mainly shoot doubles as my mainstay of practice to anchor that so I can be faithful to that motion when I take it to dry.

You can get a sense of the mechanics here.

Paper doubles, steel singles with occasional reengagement of the DA for certain shots for exercise.

@LukeNCMX look through the trigger press to see the mechanical wobble that affects the shot separate from the decision to shoot.



6MOA dot, so 6MOA wobble would be a full dot width movement. I like to keep it less than that for single action.

[LukeNCMX]

Yes and no…

For draws and single shot transitions… no.

If you don’t wobble on your trigger pull then what you see is what you get.

I have probably a 2-4MOA wobble at speed in my SA trigger mechanics… but you add and allow wobble in movement, weight shifts and transitions. The wobble compounds.

So basically EVERYTHING except doubles can be done in dry.

When I go to the range I mainly shoot doubles as my mainstay of practice to anchor that so I can be faithful to that motion when I take it to dry.

You can get a sense of the mechanics here.

Paper doubles, steel singles with occasional reengagement of the DA for certain shots for exercise.

@LukeNCMX look through the trigger press to see the mechanical wobble that affects the shot separate from the decision to shoot.



6MOA dot, so 6MOA wobble would be a full dot width movement. I like to keep it less than that for single action.

Ok I'm going to take a swing at grasping this. For me I practice dry transitions often in isolation with no trigger press. I also practice trigger presses on a static target (Stoeger Trigger Control at Speed typically). Lastly I will combine both presses and transitions when I do dry drills like Designated Target/Criss Cross or when practicing execution with single attempts on random arrays (Anderson Match Mode).

The presses and the wobble I observe while doing drills should be consistent with what I observe in TCAS or dry Bill Drills. When they are not I spend extra time on TCAS or Bills to get my presses where I want them.

Ultimately dry or live when doing multiple shot drills I am still moving from target to target and shooting based on a level of visual confirmation. I am still observing the wobble which is one of my big signals for calling shots. Clear as mud?

[JCN]

Ok I'm going to take a swing at grasping this. For me I practice dry transitions often in isolation with no trigger press. I also practice trigger presses on a static target (Stoeger Trigger Control at Speed typically). Lastly I will combine both presses and transitions when I do dry drills like Designated Target/Criss Cross or when practicing execution with single attempts on random arrays (Anderson Match Mode).

The presses and the wobble I observe while doing drills should be consistent with what I observe in TCAS or dry Bill Drills. When they are not I spend extra time on TCAS or Bills to get my presses where I want them.

Ultimately dry or live when doing multiple shot drills I am still moving from target to target and shooting based on a level of visual confirmation. I am still observing the wobble which is one of my big signals for calling shots. Clear as mud?

Without going too far into it, I don’t practice like that.