P228/M11/P229 9mm Sweet Spot

[Super77]

So, against my better judgement I’d like to get a P228 to replace the West German one I sold awhile back. I’m bewildered by the product development of the compact aluminum SIGs. Did the P229 9mm replace the P228? What are the “good” years/models to look for? I’d generally prefer a one-piece slide, not the folded metal+breach block original style.

[WobblyPossum]

Yes, the P229 replaced the P228. You can get the M11-A1 which is a P229 with the slide profile of a P228. It’s definitely my favorite looking Sig P2XX handgun. I don’t know what the odds are of getting a great one out of the box though, with Sig QC being what it is. As far as I know, all P229s have the one-piece, machined slide.

[fatdog]

On QC, the advice I have been given several times is always buy from LE stock (their version of blue label) or police trades, and try and avoid 2005-2012 production range as the worst of the Cohen cost cutting era. I have no idea how valid any of that is, but I have picked up some good deals on the P229 tribe doing it and all have been flawless performers. Of course most LE trade guns are likely to be very low round count guns as well. There have been some really good waves of LE trade in's that sell for less than 50% of the original street price of the gun. Most are .40/.357's but not all.

I picked up an early 90's date code West German P228 about 18 months ago for about $550, that was the result of diligent and patient Gunbroker shopping. It did not have the factory box or any of that stuff but was a low round count gun in excellent condition. Shooters can be found for reasonable prices if you are not in a hurry.

I am pretty certain there were no folded slide 229's ever and most 228's were, so it is probably the P229/M11A1 you seek.

Be aware there was a significant frame change at the advent of the P229-1, and the magazines changed. That allowed them to make one size frame for 9/40/357 but it has a slightly larger magwell and they had to create a new 9mm magazine. I have found the P228 magazines will run just fine but rattle and slop around a bit in the 229-1 frames, however the 229-1 or current M11A1 9mm magazines cannot even fit into the early 229 9mm or any 228 frames.

[Brian T]

So, against my better judgement I’d like to get a P228 to replace the West German one I sold awhile back. I’m bewildered by the product development of the compact aluminum SIGs. Did the P229 9mm replace the P228? What are the “good” years/models to look for? I’d generally prefer a one-piece slide, not the folded metal+breach block original style.

Check IM

[HCM]

So, against my better judgement I’d like to get a P228 to replace the West German one I sold awhile back. I’m bewildered by the product development of the compact aluminum SIGs. Did the P229 9mm replace the P228? What are the “good” years/models to look for? I’d generally prefer a one-piece slide, not the folded metal+breach block original style.

The P229 replaced the P228 in SIG’s product line, but not in actual military service.

Folded slide = 228

Solid slide =229

As noted there is no such thing as a folded slide P229.

Early P229s in 9mm used P228 mags and a different frame then the 229s in 40/357.

SIG later transition to building everything on the 40/357 frames. These later 9mm 229s on .40 frames are known as the 229-1 and use flush fitting 15 round 229-1 magazines. IME they also work with the 13 round 228 mags.

229-1 mags are not backwards compatible; they WILL NOT work in P228s or the older 13 round 9mm 229s.

SIG sells a 9mm 229 as the “M11a1” but that is pure marketing hype to sell 229s not an actual designation.

Mechanically the one piece slide P229 is superior but IME /IMHO the lighter slide of the P228 “feels” better, especially when shooting under time pressure. The 229 has always felt a bit top heavy and “clunky” vs the 228. YMMV.

This being 2023, if you want an optic the one piece slide is your only option.

[Lon]

On QC, the advice I have been given several times is always buy from LE stock (their version of blue label) or police trades, and try and avoid 2005-2012 production range as the worst of the Cohen cost cutting era. I have no idea how valid any of that is, but I have picked up some good deals on the P229 tribe doing it and all have been flawless performers. Of course most LE trade guns are likely to be very low round count guns as well. There have been some really good waves of LE trade in's that sell for less than 50% of the original street price of the gun. Most are .40/.357's but not all.

I picked up an early 90's date code West German P228 about 18 months ago for about $550, that was the result of diligent and patient Gunbroker shopping. It did not have the factory box or any of that stuff but was a low round count gun in excellent condition. Shooters can be found for reasonable prices if you are not in a hurry.

I am pretty certain there were no folded slide 229's ever and most 228's were, so it is probably the P229/M11A1 you seek.

Be aware there was a significant frame change at the advent of the P229-1, and the magazines changed. That allowed them to make one size frame for 9/40/357 but it has a slightly larger magwell and they had to create a new 9mm magazine. I have found the P228 magazines will run just fine but rattle and slop around a bit in the 229-1 frames, however the 229-1 or current M11A1 9mm magazines cannot even fit into the early 229 9mm or any 228 frames.

We had significant issues with our ‘13 produced blue label 226s. Minor issues with our 229s from same time frame. I would suggest sticking with pre ‘05 manufacture.

[Sig_Fiend]

IMO, the sweet spot in the P229 is the earlier P229's, not the P229-1. Ideally before ~'04-05 when Cohen took over as CEO (I might be off on that by ~1-2yrs). This would be a short extractor model, as the long extractor was a much later development.
If it was me, I'd go for the original non-rail frame model. The P229 is kind of chonky for what it is, so I figure why add a rail on top of that unless it's absolutely needed (e.g. duty, HD gun, etc), but that's just me.

The P228 aesthetics and ergonomics/balance are better IMO. Though, if you want a shooter that will last you the rest of your life, the early P229 is a great candidate. From an engineering standpoint, the original folded slide P228 is super cool. That said, the removable breech block and dual coil pins to retain it is added maintenance and complexity. The P229's stainless slide was a legitimate improvement in that regard. Also, while SIG's older internal extractors have worked very well when not misused (e.g. never load a single round through the ejection port!), the P229's standard external extractor design with a compression spring is a more consistent design in the long run and easier to maintain.

You can look for date codes and serial numbers to help pin down year and sometimes month when they were made. The ones I described are honestly not all that difficult to find.
Checking Gunbroker right now, I see at least 4 or 5 short extractor P229's. One of those is as early as 1994 and most between there and 2004. I'd be all over that '94 if it was me.

[MattyD380]

@HCM 's post covered everything you really need to know, from a "product lineage" standpoint. I've had a P228. I agree--it's a good "sweet spot," size wise, for a handy duty pistol.

That said, I found an early '90s P229 for less than $500 last summer. It's a little beat up, but it runs 100% and shoots very well. As mentioned, the early P229s are basically P228s with fatter, heavier milled slides (early P229s had wider slides than other Sigs; that changed with the whole P229-1 thing in 2009ish).



I kinda like the P229's girthier slide, actually. It feels a little more planted and stable than the P228 I had. Plus, I feel like the P228 has the most "halo" of all the classic Sigs... so, they tend to command fairly high prices. You might be able to get an old P229 for less. Early P229s and P228s use the same frames, mags, grip panels and frame internals. Part of me wants to find a cheap P228 slide and have the option of "P228 mode" for my P229. The other part of me thinks that's dumb.

[Super77]

Ok fellas I’m on the hunt with some good leads provided. One quick question though: is a .40 to 9 conversion an option, or does that hurt reliability?

Thanks for all the amazing information, this is why I love P-F.

Matty, there used to be P228 parts kits available for pretty cheap, and someone was making 80% receivers. I’m sure someone out there has a parts kit and never got arou d tk doing the receiver. May be able to find a conpelte slide for less than $300 (the price of the kits iirc).

[fatdog]

There is of course a breachface difference.

I have an IEK Firedragon 9mm conversion barrel intended for the .40/357 P229, I use a 9mm recoil spring and 229-1 9mm mags when I "convert" and my .357/40 slide 229 runs just fine. So far.

I have read it will also work with a straight Sig factory P229 9mm barrel but have not tried. I used to travel all the time with my P229, kept it in 357 Sig configuration, but had that 9mm conversion barrel, recoil spring and a couple of the 9mm mags in my suitcase along with a .40 barrel so if I became ammo constrained I could find some 9 or 40 and carry on. It was also handy to have the 9mm conversion for practice and I did thousands of rounds of 9mm ball with that config.

That said, I would not walk out the door in the morning with the 229 in that 9mm conversion barrel configuration, even though it seems to run just fine. I have a P228 anyway.

Another option is to simply get a complete 9mm upper and some mags and then you are 100% good to go.