Titanic tourist submarine is missing.

[ccmdfd]

Have there been other times where the craft has been out of communication for hours and then returned normally?

Don't have a source handy to quote, but I have seen that mentioned in more than one article that it would get out of communications for hours at a time routinely

[PNWTO]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/debris-fi...ast-guard-says

"I'll take structural failure for a thousand, Alex."

As stated upthread, that's probably the best way to go when the other option is waiting in a freezing MRI tube full of excrement and seeing if the temperature, hypoxia, or CO2 turns the lights out first.

[Stephanie B]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/debris-fi...ast-guard-says

"I'll take structural failure for a thousand, Alex."

Given that there have been two Battles of the Atlantic between the US/UK/CAN and the Kriegsmarine in the last 100 years, finding a debris field at the bottom isn't remarkable, unless they can see what kind of debris it is. (Not to mention all of the other ships that have been wrecked and sunk in those waters.)

[JCN]

Said this to the Mrs this morning.
All this effort for 5 people who were aware of the DEADLY risks, but chose to go.

Agree with the training opportunity, but tough experience for the rescuers.

I’m not even sure they really knew the risks.

If you asked the CEO about the risk of death on this particular dive…

He might have said <1%.

Whereas the reality might have been 20-50%.

I don’t doubt the passengers took his ego-blinded assessment as fact.

Like I’m aware of the deadly risks I face driving on the highway, but I put that at <0.1% or less.

If you told me 20-50%, I’d stay at home more….

[wvincent]

Given that there have been two Battles of the Atlantic between the US/UK/CAN and the Kriegsmarine in the last 100 years, finding a debris field at the bottom isn't remarkable, unless they can see what kind of debris it is. (Not to mention all of the other ships that have been wrecked and sunk in those waters.)

Absolutely true. I made my "Jeopardy!" wager based on the people conducting the search are some serious pro's in that arena.
I would expect that they are screening their press releases to avoid the instance that you mentioned. If nothing else, at least in the realm of Institutional Protectionism.

I could be wrong, they could be wrong, and maybe the "bathtub of death" gets hauled to the surface with 5, very much alive, but with seriously shit-stained knickers.

And that WOULD be a great alternative outcome.

[RoyGBiv]

I guess the question would be, what would your cut off have been? How long between radio silence and Send In The Navy for you?

If a basic expectation and contingencies weren't defined in the operating plan, that's negligence.
I'm not smart enough to know the correct answer, but I'm plenty smart enough to not so sailing without a plan. As I expect those aboard were capable of deciding.

[Joe in PNG]

I don't quite get that vibe. The Theranos fraud at least didn't require putting her own physical safety in immediate peril.

This is a kind of hubris I run into fairly often. I am routinely in a position where I have to work on things with self described "idea people". These are people who think big thoughts. They think "outside the box". They've always just completed yet another book by some other huckster about "leadership" or "innovation" or something like that. And they have themselves an idea.

Except that they have absolutely no concept of how anything they have ideas about actually works, and so they invent something that is untethered to any reality we would recognize.

As I have grown fond of saying, the idea to go to the New World requires at least a sufficient grasp of the barriers involved to understand some big boats will be necessary. I'm talking about people who want to go to the New World and think they can do it in a canoe. Or just by walking. I mean, if Jesus and Peter did it...

It takes a specific blend of arrogance, ignorance, and some measure of "success" in something else that feeds both of those things to achieve. When I see it, there is usually an advanced degree in something, usually something non-technical that serves as that fuel.

The dismissive attitude towards tradition and the idea that they can innovate their way around decades of established science is the Theranos thing I'm picking up on. I suspect Liz originally did plan on making her magic box work, and turned to fraud when it became apparent it wasn't actually going to work.

Both went charging down the road full throttle, ignoring the warning signs until they crashed hard.

[blues]

I wonder how many people who get on rides at the local fair or carnival have thought about whether the people setting it up and working on it are competent, or care about whether they take shortcuts?

I remember wondering the same thing about the guy who packed my chute the first time I jumped from a small Cessna at 3,000 feet.

[RoyGBiv]

We had a boss at one of my prior assignments that was like that. We had a written policy of requiring certain notifications be made whenever any shooting or explosion happened within a certain radius of our facility, even if it didn't appear to be directed at us. He didn't like having the make those notifications, and would make excuses. He also didn't like it when I rolled people out of bed because one of our personnel missed a scheduled ride, was not answering the phone or attempts to bang on his door, and it turned out that person had just gotten an earlier flight out of country last minute but just forgot to send an update to the operations center. That's when you get the backhanded/sarcastic, "Everything was okay, but of course you did what you were supposed to" comments at team meeting/debriefs, which creates a chilling effect on other subordinates to actually do what they're supposed, instead saying inside their heads, "Nah, everything's probably okay, I can probably just ignore this for now". Breeds that culture of inaction for fear of upsetting some douchebag boss, stakeholder, or customer.

Follow the process. I could work for you.

In my very small volunteer role, our team has only had one major disagreement.... On an occasion when an actionable trigger was reached, but the on duty team decided, not unreasonably, not to take the prescribed action. "There obviously wasn't a real danger." Most of the team was ready to walk away if we didn't follow the process. In the end, we fixed the process and agreed that it was policy to follow every step, and fix something that needed fixing as an after-action.

ETA... Just wanted to acknowledge... There's a big difference between following the process in a safety role vs an innovative environment.

[Totem Polar]

This is a kind of hubris I run into fairly often. I am routinely in a position where I have to work on things with self described "idea people". These are people who think big thoughts. They think "outside the box". They've always just completed yet another book by some other huckster about "leadership" or "innovation" or something like that. And they have themselves an idea.

Except that they have absolutely no concept of how anything they have ideas about actually works, and so they invent something that is untethered to any reality we would recognize.

As I have grown fond of saying, the idea to go to the New World requires at least a sufficient grasp of the barriers involved to understand some big boats will be necessary. I'm talking about people who want to go to the New World and think they can do it in a canoe. Or just by walking. I mean, if Jesus and Peter did it...

It takes a specific blend of arrogance, ignorance, and some measure of "success" in something else that feeds both of those things to achieve. When I see it, there is usually an advanced degree in something, usually something non-technical that serves as that fuel.

I'll give an example from a friend.

This friend works at a university...

Way OT, but I can both vouch for, and pile on to, your idea. A couple of years ago, some “successful” university people with terminal degrees in something other than business decided that it took too many “person hours” to issue contracts to part-time class instructors. So they stopped, and instead issued blank form letters with “TBA” and “TBD” in the columns where actual classes, workloads, and especially term pay, used to be.

Which made great logistical sense to the minds that birthed the novel idea, who are only now finding out that they also birthed a labor law hydra, and incurred reasonably horrific liability for the institution.

So, yeah, that vesica piscis where hubris meets Dunning and Krueger. It’s a thing anywhere the arrogant and ignorant gather.



Back on topic, at this point, structural failure is the least worst option. At least the 5 never knew what happened, if true.